Hate Watching Avatar 3: Fire and Rehash

A three-hour sci-fi epic shouldn’t feel like you accidentally hit replay, yet that’s the vibe we can’t shake while breaking down Avatar 3: Fire and Ash. We’re Dan and Tony, and we watch the movies everyone’s already seen, then pull on the threads that the hype cycle ignores: character logic, story structure, and whether the emotional moments are actually earned.

We dig into the big question the movie flirts with and then seems to abandon: what’s the real moral dilemma here? From Jake Sully’s sudden turn toward “maybe I should kill Spider” to the recycled son-rebels-again storyline, we talk about why stakes don’t work when they show up without buildup. We also get into the film’s environmental themes, whale hunting brutality, and the colonialism allegory, especially when the humans are cartoonishly cruel and the Na’vi feel oddly disconnected from the animals the franchise used to treat as sacred.

Then we hit the craft stuff: CGI that still looks impressive, creature design that almost saves scenes, sound design choices that make us scream at our screens, and worldbuilding rules that seem to change depending on what the plot needs. Plus, an intermission you have to hear to believe: a mouse breaks into Tony’s Girl Scout cookies and sparks an all-out household war.

Subscribe for more movie reviews, share this with a friend who loves film criticism, and leave a review if you want us to keep surviving blockbusters like this. What’s the one moment in Fire and Ash you think should have worked but didn’t?

Lovingly written by AI

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Transcript

Welcome And Avatar 3 Whiplash

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Well, we should do this show since this is gonna be long.

SPEAKER_04 0:03

It has to be long. The movie's three hours long. I mean, the good news is it repeats itself four times within the same movie, so it's fine.

SPEAKER_03 0:09

I have some complaints about this movie.

SPEAKER_05 0:22

I'm watching!

SPEAKER_02 0:23

Welcome to He Why Think with Dan and Tony. I'm Dan! I am Tony. On this show, we watch the movies that most of the people on the planet have already seen, but we give a new take. That's correct. Brand new take. I don't know. I don't think it's a new take.

SPEAKER_04 0:40

Same old take. Bad movie.

SPEAKER_02 0:42

Yeah, but nobody else's take is gonna have Tony's mouse story worked in seamlessly.

SPEAKER_04 0:47

That's true. Done seamlessly. Yeah, yeah. This is a good pivot. Great job so far.

SPEAKER_02 0:53

Tony's cut this mouse story that you better hang in for the whole episode.

SPEAKER_04 0:58

Better strap in, ladies and gentlemen.

SPEAKER_02 1:01

He could be inserting this great Girl Scout cookie mouse story. You're giving all the bits of information down. I don't even need to tell the story. So we do the movies that the blockbusters, the knockbusters, the knockwurst busters. Um we do the I'm Dan and you're Tony. Did we do that part? Yeah, you did it.

SPEAKER_04 1:25

You're doing great. You're doing so good, Dan. I'm proud of you.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

This week we're doing Avatar 3, Fire and Ash.

SPEAKER_04 1:34

Yes. So good.

SPEAKER_02 1:36

It's like the second one, except they sort of shifted the characters almost, but didn't.

SPEAKER_04 1:44

No, yeah, they didn't. It's pretty much the same. I'm gonna tell you this right now. Tell me right now right now, Tony King. I had to stop the movie after about 15 minutes because I was like, oh shit, I think I'm watching the wrong one. That is a true story. I'm not, this is not a joke whatsoever. I stopped it. I was like, I think I'm watching the wrong one. Had to Google which name the third one was. I was like, nope, this is it. But I swear to God, this is how the other one starts. I don't, I feel like I've seen this movie. Okay, I have one question.

SPEAKER_02 2:12

Just on that. Do they say Avatar 3 colon, fire and ash, or do they say Avatar Fire and Ash?

SPEAKER_04 2:19

They say that one, just fire and ash. So I was like, I don't remember what is it water, is it fire? I don't know where I am in the series.

SPEAKER_02 2:26

Now hold on a second. That's what Greenland did that also.

SPEAKER_04 2:30

Correct. Yeah, just Greenland migration. But the first one doesn't have a colon. You know, so you know, if there's a colon, you know that you're watching a sequel.

SPEAKER_02 2:41

So yeah, so we we've we've watched Avatar 3, Fire and Ash. Yeah. It's like three hours and 17 minutes.

SPEAKER_00 2:49

It sure is.

SPEAKER_02 2:50

Only about seven minutes of credits. I was like, there's gotta be 17 minutes of credits on this movie. That's I was like, sweet, it's all really only three hours. We're gonna have 17 minutes. No.

SPEAKER_04 3:02

Well, this is not Jimmy doesn't care about the people that worked on this movie. He's like, just make it go really fast.

SPEAKER_02 3:07

It was a that is a short credit roll and a terrible song. Terrible, terrible song. The song was terrible. It's so stupid.

SPEAKER_04 3:15

I don't even know what it was. Because it's so cheesy, it's so stupid.

SPEAKER_03 3:21

Now Tony. Yeah. Shannon's shutting the door because I'm being too loud.

What Sci-Fi Moral Stakes Need

SPEAKER_02 3:25

Bye, Shannon. You you and I have a the thing about making a science fiction movie is you get to you get to tackle big concepts, right? And and and you know, big Star Trek is is okay. There's two things. There's there's Star Wars, which is you know, space fantasies, basically what it is. Battles, very fun, you know, I'm good, you're evil, you're gonna be good, but we'll do a little switch up and you'll be my dad. Okay. It's fine. Right? And you'll be my daddy, you know, and not daddy. Daddy. You're Zaddy. You know, and you have you have rugged individualist Han Solo, I'm in it for the money, I'm in it for the money until I change my mind and come back and save the day. You know, like as a child, I'm just like, he came back and saved the day.

SPEAKER_00 4:14

Incredible stuff. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:16

Then you have Star Trek, which is mostly a TV show where it's like all moral dilemmas, you know, should we, as this advanced race, do this thing? Should we do that? But we don't have money and we get to eat whatever food we want. You know, it's like perfect utopian society, but we're still out there doing stuff. So you get to tackle big concepts in a more Star Treky world. The biggest, the biggest of the concepts is save Spock or save the universe, right?

SPEAKER_00 4:45

Sure. Yeah, you love this stuff. You love this stuff. You love it.

SPEAKER_02 4:53

It's like, well, what would I do? And we all know I would save the universe and Tony would save me.

SPEAKER_04 4:59

Yeah, my BFF. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna go on living with the world without you. Okay. You know, sorry, can't do it.

SPEAKER_02 5:06

Q, whatever that song is, you know, the Top Gun song. It was a Top Gun song. Danger Zone? Well, could be dangerous. Danger Zone.

SPEAKER_04 5:17

So we got cut up. Yep, we're off. Sorry, we're off air, everybody.

SPEAKER_02 5:21

So, Tony, what is the moral dilemma in Avatar 3 that we have to confront?

SPEAKER_04 5:29

Um, I think it's something like should I be attracted to these blue people or should I not? That's that's your that's your personal devil, Tony. It's not because guess what? I am. I'm not even ashamed of it. Are you kidding me? Okay, well, we'll get to your perversions later. Great. What's the big moral dilemma? Um, a fatherhood, you know, can I accept this guy? Or maybe like, should I become I don't even know how to say that. Do you not remember what the big moral dilemma of the movie was? Like, I remember the dilemma of the first one, which is also sort of the dilemma of the second one, and now also sort of the dilemma of the third one, but they've all been watered down now, and now we don't really have like a colonization effort.

SPEAKER_02 6:16

We have the greatest moral dilemma of all. Oh, what is it? Should I murder my child to save the planet?

SPEAKER_04 6:25

Guess what? The answer was yes. The answer was yes the whole time. Because you know what? He's not your child.

unknown 6:32

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 6:34

Wow, Tony.

SPEAKER_02 6:35

Wow, wow, wow, wow, Tony. Tony, he's there and adopted they raised. But wait, hold on. Isn't the let isn't the last movie all about Natiri wanting to murder to murder Spider? And then in this one, Jake literally takes Spider out into the jungle is like, boy, we gotta have a talk. And the talk is I'm gonna cut your throat.

SPEAKER_04 7:01

It's like when you take your dog out to kill it because it's got rapies, you know what I mean? Like it's the old yeller.

SPEAKER_02 7:07

It's it's the old yeller conundrum, isn't it? But instead, it's a human boy, you know?

SPEAKER_00 7:15

Same difference, same difference.

SPEAKER_02 7:17

But it's like they you could couch it so well. You could have like the talk with him first, you know, but instead Jake's like got his knife to his throat, and then Spider's like, we'll talk about this more, but Spider's like, yeah, I guess you're gonna be able to do it. I guess you're gonna have to do this. Uh I'm taking one for the team. You're like, no, that's not how it works. No. When you when you're when the person that rails you up and then they're ready to murder you, I don't know, man. That that breaks down the father-son relationship. You you think?

SPEAKER_04 7:51

I don't know. It feels pretty on point for me. The father wanting to kill the son and then just deciding not to for a little bit, but every once in a while he's like, I probably should have done it. He looks at his life and he's like, he amounted to nothing. He does a stupid podcast with his friend. I should have killed him years ago. You know, just uh spitballing here.

SPEAKER_02 8:11

So it's so it's lucky that you came back from all those hunting trips alive? Is that what you're telling me?

SPEAKER_04 8:17

Turns out he's lucky he came back alive. Actually, he's the one he he knew he should have struck first. That's why I'm not allowed to have guns. That's the moral of that story. So do you think Um? Here's my problem with that, uh with that uh proclamation that dance, because the movie's not really about that. There's a scene about it. The movie's not about it. There's no build-up scene. Sully goes from being like, no, we can't kill him, to all of a sudden be like, I'm gonna kill him. Without any in-between whatsoever.

SPEAKER_02 8:48

We we move from one plot point to another. Hey, we better just do this. And then when it's over, pretty quickly.

SPEAKER_04 8:54

We'll never speak for everyone will forget about it and be like, nah, we were just kidding. Big hug. High four.

SPEAKER_00 9:01

Uh ridiculous.

SPEAKER_02 9:03

This is this is so that's my that's my up upfront top note. Is do you have any upfront top notes that you want to hit, Tony?

SPEAKER_04 9:10

Um, I so no, we hit it, which is just basically like I'm pretty sure this is just the same script as the second movie, with just a few differences to make it, you know, its own thing, I guess. But not really.

Cruelty Problem And No Counterpoint

SPEAKER_02 9:26

One one one question, but one last question before we get into it. Yeah, please. I guess in the Guardians of Galaxy, the third movie, they did a lot of animal exploitation uh stuff. So I've never watched it.

SPEAKER_04 9:41

It's brutal. It is hard. I cried so much during that movie. It's ridiculous. I'll never watch it again.

SPEAKER_02 9:47

This movie, kind of the same thing where you're just like the brutality of the cruelty of the horrible, cruel people, and like just the you know, you watch a lot of horror movies, but the glee that these people that are sort of normal-ish people take in just murder and being filthy animals, and to the point of it, it just like I don't I don't want to watch the depiction of people that are this horrible having any level of firepower or power at all.

SPEAKER_04 10:25

And those are the good guys in this movie. Would listen. In the first movie, again, we haven't watched these in a I haven't re-watched these movies. This is not one of those times where we're like, I'm gonna re-watch the other movies so I can get ready for this one. No, thank you. We'll never do it again. I don't remember in the first one them being so callous. And by them, I mean the Navi, is that their name? Oh, you're saying the Navi. They also don't give a shit about their animals.

SPEAKER_02 10:54

Like the flying bird things when they die, they just get off them and they're okay. They don't care at all.

SPEAKER_04 11:00

In the first the whole point is like he's gotta like intertwine his braid and have sex with it and like mind meld. And that's like a big plot point, is like you know, the the bond that you have. I don't remember the second one, maybe it was looser, but in this one, they don't care at all. No, nobody cares about any animals whatsoever, and we're just murdered them left and right. Yeah, and so in a movie where the humans are so bad, we are so, so bad in this movie because we're just having a great time blowing up these whale things, you don't have a counterpoint. Like you have to have the bad guys and the good guys have different viewpoints, but you kind of don't. And that's a big problem. That's a big problem for me.

SPEAKER_02 11:46

It it definitely has gotten to the point where it's just, yeah, even in the second one, you always sort of felt the frission between the danger of having their family there and and the real conflict of the people. And and in this one, they're just like, Yeah, we're just gonna yeah, just come with us, yeah, whatever happens, happens. Okay, you know?

SPEAKER_04 12:11

It's weird, and then the whole the son storyline is bizarre to me. So the son, in the second one, which I don't really remember, defies orders and then gets the brother killed. Is that kind of the basis of what we're supposed to believe? Sort of so sort of, you know. Sort of. So then in this one, he defies orders at the end, and then the younger brother gets kidnapped, and Sully is like, I'm proud of you, son. You did the right thing. What's happening? It's the same plot line, except for the only difference is Sully is the opposite side of the fence there.

SPEAKER_02 12:48

Well, it what's what this movie is supposed to be about. It's supposed to be about really. Well, actually, the two movies are supposed to be about how the son is rebelling against his dad, and then the son is making the correct decision, right? Um because it was the same decision.

SPEAKER_04 13:09

He left his post in the second one, his brother died. He left his post in the third one, his younger brother gets kidnapped.

SPEAKER_02 13:15

But he gives the s he gives the speech that convinces the whales to fight.

SPEAKER_04 13:20

Big deal, it has no bearing on the two decisions he makes. I mean, that's great that he was able to rally the forces and send an endangered animal into war to die. We can talk about that all day. That's ridiculous. He should not be doing that. It's the opposite, you need to preserve these animals. But no, no, no, let's send them into war to die because we don't need animals on the planet anymore. But that's not his his his crux is in this in the second one. He defies orders and leaves his post, goes back to get spider, and then the brother dies. In this one, he leaves his post, goes try to find his sister grandma, you know, combination. Sigourney Weaver. That's so weird. It's I can't I can't handle it.

SPEAKER_02 14:03

It's so freaking creepy. It's so freaking creepy. It's creepy. It feels it feels like offensive and dirty. It feels like it feels like I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 14:16

If I feel that way, you know it's bad. You know what I mean? Because I, as you like to point out, I have some depravities, right? So if I'm like this is this is icky, you gotta get rid of it. You go you gotta change it, right?

SPEAKER_02 14:32

No, it's unnecessary.

SPEAKER_04 14:34

Higher advantage. Just a reason for. Yep. If you want to keep her face the same, that's fine. The face is so weird, though. The face is weird, but if it came with a young person's voice, it would be less weird for me. You know what I mean? The face is so ugly. It's like ugly. It's true. It's true. Well, I can't be attracted to everyone in the movie, Dan.

SPEAKER_02 14:55

That's not fair to the the one girl, the one girl, the the son's girlfriend, she's hot.

SPEAKER_04 15:01

The water girl.

SPEAKER_02 15:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:02

Yeah. She's smoking. Yeah. And then the the pregnant mom smoking off. We'll have to talk about that. What is wrong with you? Oh. Do I need to cut that out, Dan?

SPEAKER_02 15:17

No, you have to leave it in. So when they when the trials begin, you know, we can use that as evidence.

SPEAKER_04 15:23

The evidence stacks up pretty quickly against this guy. Um yeah, she's out though. But then we just kill her. What that was terrible. Oh, didn't you enjoy that when they delivered the when she's like, first of all, let me see my baby. I just gotta push this baby out real quick. In three minutes, she gives birth, which is a ridiculous scene. As she's dying, she just pops it right out with no pain whatsoever, and then she holds it and dies. I was like, what is what is happening? This is dumb storytelling. This is so no, it's emotional, but it's not just that's the first you can't tell me you got emotional, Dan. There's no emotional stakes to it. For that or in this whole movie, for that specific scene. Right. If a mu Dan, if a mother gives birth and then dies holding her baby, there should be some sort of emotion to that. If you make a movie where I feel nothing for that, that's bad. That's incredible. That you have to try to make it not emotional, it's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_02 16:28

Well, you know, James Cameron's like talking about, you know, the the the making four and five avatar is is up in the air now. Because this one made, you know, 30 30% less or 35% less than the last one, and these cost so much to make. And he's like thinking about how you could, you know, you'd have to make these for a smaller budget, and you're like, well, maybe not have a thousand characters in every scene. And doesn't have to be three hours long. Doesn't have to be three hours long, and uh put some character beats in your movie.

CGI Impressions And Favorite Bits

SPEAKER_04 17:03

Sho oh, what no, no, don't do that, James. Don't listen to Dan, you'll ruin your whole series. Jesus Christ. You know what he could just do is just release these movies again, two and three as four and five, because he basically did that already. You know how cheap that is, buddy? Just change the title. That's all you gotta do. People will still go see your bullshit. Can I okay, one more thing, and then we can get to the movie. Um, and this is I know I'm supposed to watch it in a theater, sure, and probably on like one of those big iMac screens or whatever, but I watch it at home on my 65-inch 10-year-old television. Yeah, does it look that good? It looks it looks good. Like, I'm not I don't think it looks bad. Like, we watch a lot of movies that look bad. This looks good. Well, the the problem when the first one came out, it was game-changing, right? And now it's just kind of like I think people have kind of caught up to you. Well, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 18:04

Think about what happened in the first movie. He gets he gets avatared, and then he gets dumped in the forest, and then the two of them have to travel across the forest, and they have adventures, and we meet the forest, and then um he has to learn how to fly the the wyvern, yeah, and then then he has to fight Koric at the end. That's what happens in that movie, basically. Yeah. Yeah. There's no war. Yeah. There's there's a guy walking, there's a guy walking through a world where it's not just like, oh, I'm on one side of the world, now I'm on the other side of the world, and there's a hundred balloons that are carrying me there, and there's a thousand people attacking, and I'm shooting a thousand machine guns into the air. It's like I don't I don't care. I I mean what did I like about this movie? I like that he was gonna murder his own child. I love that. That's great. Good movie making. Because it's insane.

SPEAKER_04 19:04

Yeah, sure, sure. If you and you if you built it up a little bit more, that'd you know, it's interesting. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:11

I like the squids. I thought the squids were cool at the end. Oh yeah, well, they because they there was the one where he was the kid was running away from the squids where we introduced the squids.

SPEAKER_04 19:22

Right, yep, right.

SPEAKER_02 19:23

He was looking for Pygon. He gets attacked by the squids. It's that scene way too short. You're like, make this a scene. Yeah, well, we'll talk about that scene. I like the squids. I kind of like the crab suits where the people in the crab suits. Of course, I don't think we had those in the last movie. I think they're a new thing. You're just like how is how is this a whole new tech that we have in a movie that takes place a day after the other movie? Yeah, pretty soon after. Pretty soon.

SPEAKER_00 19:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:52

Um, so those are like the only things I think I and there was a there's a Barracuda, Barracuda fish that they ride in a flying fish.

SPEAKER_04 19:59

Barracuda.

SPEAKER_02 19:59

Which I like those. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 20:02

I don't I'm trying to think of if I liked anything in the movie. I didn't like any fish. Um I don't yeah, I don't know if I did. I don't think I'm not sure. Well, the naked lady did.

SPEAKER_02 20:11

I mean, the pregnant lady.

SPEAKER_04 20:12

Sure, sure, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Smoking hot ladies. Um I the son thing is funny, but I w you should have done more with it. Uh I also wish you would have killed him because I don't like that character. Oh, really? So, like the problem well, so for me, like the problem with that scene is I'm rooting for him to die. Not because not for plot reasons, but just because I don't want to see this character anymore. And now the whole movie is about him becoming a navi. He's growing a tail. It's so dumb, but also so worrying for the sequels, because now he's definitely gonna be in them.

SPEAKER_02 20:52

No spider going away. Well, you killed the kid you killed a stupid kid in the other movie, so you can't kill another stupid kid.

SPEAKER_04 20:58

Right, but you just you killed the wrong kid. That's all I'm saying.

SPEAKER_02 21:02

Yeah. Well, I mean, what they really should have done is they should have phased out Jake and Natiri in this, and it should have been about the kid. It should have been about his kid. Sure. If this movie was 100% about his kid rebelling against adulthood and and you know, going with the going with the young the the young whales, that's an interest that's an interesting story. But they they try and shoehorn it in there by giving the kid uh like narration at times. And you're just like, this this does not feel like he heard has earned this narration. You gotta you gotta put that kid, you know. That's what the the beginning of the movie is him saying, God damn it, this is not cool. You guys, you know, it should be the exiling of Pygon or whatever his name is. Pygows.

SPEAKER_04 21:54

P is right. It starts with a P. You got that part.

SPEAKER_02 21:57

And then the the whale gets exiled, he has to go and Find the fucking whale, and then they go on some whale adventures, and then his friends, you know, he he calls his friends, they come and they they find some big thing that the whale can wield against the bad guys, and then the whale, you know.

SPEAKER_04 22:15

That's not what happens. No.

SPEAKER_02 22:17

We have we introduce the fire people, and then the fire people are just like, ugh. She's hot too. Pun intended. I expected it to be much hotter.

SPEAKER_04 22:28

Okay, all right. Well, you know, the the general guy would disagree. I oh, and that's all very weird. There's so many weird things in this movie. Um, so he's basically doing Sully's story, right? The Quarch or whatever. Quaritch Colonel. So we're just retreading Sully's uh journey to the Navi in like this guy's now also becoming more and more not at one point. He shows up to the war room in their the human base, and he's in full war paint. Come on, guy, come on, that's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_02 23:09

Well, and once again, well, there you go. We've we have dealt with that character being exactly the same for three movies. He has not changed an iota. Change him! Make him be like I've gone native, you know. Fuck fuck these guys. Well, he's he's having sex, you know. Well, then have him have him go native first.

SPEAKER_04 23:32

That's a good I'm just saying that's a good first start.

unknown 23:35

You know.

SPEAKER_04 23:36

He could build from there. That's it's a it's one block on his journey, you know.

SPEAKER_02 23:42

Okay, all right.

SPEAKER_04 23:43

Yeah, sorry, we can go through this.

SPEAKER_02 23:45

You start with the two brothers flying birds, and we find out they're not really flying birds, he's just in the group mind flying birds with. Right, because death means nothing.

SPEAKER_04 23:55

Is that kind of it's a it's a you become a force form and you're just your memories are saved. Yeah. But I can just plug in and hang out all the time with my dead brother. Unless you're unless you're Sigorny Weaver's character who can't because don't understand her storyline at all, Dan. I'm gonna be honest. Because wind?

SPEAKER_02 24:15

Spiritual wind?

SPEAKER_05 24:18

You're blowing me away. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:21

Which is which is and you're it by blowing me away, you're giving me a seizure, which will kill me. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 24:26

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Maybe maybe just keep doing it.

SPEAKER_02 24:30

They're gonna take five movies to finally explain what that's about. Oh, movie five. Well, you see. No. No path. Let's see. Uh stupid spider is watching him. He wishes that. Oh, well, here we go. Here we got foreshadowing. Spider says, I wish I could go in there and see all the ancestros. Well, you're gonna be able to.

SPEAKER_04 24:51

And it's like, but how but how? Why? He can't just become another species. I don't I don't like that storyline.

SPEAKER_02 24:58

Um now he and Scorty Weaver's character who might be named Kitty, Kitty and Spider are a thing.

SPEAKER_04 25:04

Yeah, something like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:06

Um now, Tony, does it distract you at all times that they all seem like they should just all be fucking constantly?

SPEAKER_04 25:17

Wouldn't you describe what you mean by distract? Uh, because that's the only thing that keeps me watching the movie. You know what I'm saying? Just waiting for it.

SPEAKER_02 25:25

I mean, it really I don't know why everything seems like hyper sexual. You know, like if I was hanging around these super hot, you know, like everybody's super hot and everybody's like, you know, and everybody's pumping iron 24-7 and sure, yeah, just like my house. There's there's nothing grounded in anything, it always just feels because they're also they're like animals, and you're like, I don't know, sure, man. It just it gets weird at a certain point. Yeah, it's a weird vibe. You know, shagording's character is always all over Spider's dick.

SPEAKER_04 26:04

And right, and it's weird because she's 80. But also, you know, 15 or whatever. It's weird.

SPEAKER_03 26:14

How old is Spider?

SPEAKER_04 26:16

Um I don't know. I think he's still a boy, right? I mean, obviously the actor is 30 now, I think, give or take. Um, but I think he's supposed to be, you know, a young boy. For 15, 17, 14. You think 17? I don't know. I don't, that's a little old for me, but maybe.

SPEAKER_02 26:34

The way he acts, those hormones are raging. Just raging all over the place. And like if she was coming up, you know, if someone like that was coming up on you when you're 17 years old, it's over, man.

SPEAKER_04 26:47

16 or 17. That's what it says. Fire and ash. Spider will be 16 or 17. He's ready to go.

unknown 26:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 26:58

Dad's collecting guns from the crashed ship. The kids pick up, I guess, I guess the ancestral bow got broken, and then he gets yelled at because the it's broken, because of what they did in the other movie, and that's wrong. And then the girl says we can fix it, and then he's all like, I'm going to power, we can't fix it, and then they just go and fix it just by magic.

SPEAKER_04 27:20

It's just a bow. You could definitely fix it. I mean, I don't I don't know if there's magic in it or something, and that's what he means by you can just fix it.

SPEAKER_02 27:28

No, yeah, you can't fix it. That's the whole idea of a bow is you can't fix it. I can fix it. No, you cannot fix it.

SPEAKER_04 27:34

You put a little duct tape on that thing, you are good to go.

SPEAKER_02 27:40

Every real bow is made out of one piece of wood. You can't glue it, you can't tape it, you can't do anything like that. Robin. It's gonna be one piece of wood. So that that annoyed me. That really annoyed me. But she said she could fix it.

SPEAKER_04 27:54

Yeah, I believe her.

SPEAKER_02 27:55

And then and then it's just fixed. There's not a thing. Exactly. They fixed it, Dan.

SPEAKER_04 28:00

They fixed it. They probably put it in the ground and then put their little tail on it, and then it fixed it magically.

SPEAKER_02 28:06

So we do a whole thing where metal weapons are forbidden. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:12

Have we heard that before? Not only have we heard it, but it's not true. It's not true at all, from what I can tell.

SPEAKER_02 28:22

And they're all like, oh, so Jake rides the big, the big bird, which in this movie didn't seem effective in any way, shape, or form. It didn't mean anything. Yeah. And then he's like, When you ride the beast, you become the beast. Nope.

SPEAKER_04 28:38

Didn't that doesn't I don't even understand what he's saying there. He kills more people with the machine gun in his hands than he does while he's riding some beautiful creature. So I don't understand what he means.

SPEAKER_02 28:49

Yeah, or if he was like acting differently because he wrote this creature, but he doesn't.

SPEAKER_04 28:55

Sure, he's you know, he's angry all the time and he's snapping at people as I'm becoming the beast. You know.

SPEAKER_02 29:03

Uh the humans go looking for Sully's body and they can't find it. And then Quarch is like, give me a ship, I'll go find him. Quarch, quartch, quartch. Quartch, quatch, quartch. Uh they want to fix the bull. Um and then he and the Tyri fight because he gotta have guns, and she's all like, Oh, I have my faith, and he's like, you have family, your faith doesn't matter, or something.

SPEAKER_04 29:34

Right. I'm it's confusing to me a little bit because again, the first movie is like him learning the ways of the Navi, and then at the end, I feel like he's like fully embraced the Navi. I thought that was kind of like the story, but now he's like fully human, like it feels. You know what I mean? Yeah, he's gone the complete other way, and he's like, your beliefs are stupid, blue girl. You're an idiot. We gotta we gotta do war the war way. Right. What do you what? That's the opposite. That's the opposite of the whole point of the first movie, I thought.

SPEAKER_02 30:09

I don't know. The kids are still playing with PyCon, even though he's an outcast. Uh we have a thing where spider so spider has a mask because he needs he needs um air to live.

unknown 30:23

Right.

SPEAKER_02 30:24

Which is crazy. That that so you're trusting this one mask that can just break, but they have two of them, and then his mask malfunctions, and he's right, he is uh dying and yeah, just suffocating. Just doesn't wake up.

unknown 30:38

Nope.

SPEAKER_04 30:39

That's well, listen, as somebody with a little sleep apnea, it happens, okay.

SPEAKER_02 30:45

Yeah, but hold on. If you I mean, doesn't your sleep apnea machine bother you sometimes?

SPEAKER_04 30:50

I don't have I'm I lied. I don't have a machine. I probably should get one. I'm a bad snore, and sometimes I wake up and I do this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:01

Yeah, just that I do exactly that.

SPEAKER_00 31:04

Yeah.

Plot Beats That Make No Sense

SPEAKER_02 31:05

So the wind traders show up who are people that sail on the winds, and they're like, they're gonna give them spider to go to his own kind, I guess. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 31:16

Yeah, what is that what what do you mean?

SPEAKER_02 31:19

I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 31:20

To the bad people?

SPEAKER_02 31:21

What like I mean there's there's the whatchamacallit, there's still a few scientists that are in like a secret base who they're at at one point. So maybe they were sending him there. I don't know why you just don't just put him on a go there. Yeah, no, no, no. You can just you can just leave that section and fly to wherever you want the world. So don't know what the wind traders have to do with anything. All right. So they're like, okay, now we're all gonna go. And why?

SPEAKER_04 31:49

How is that better? They all seem to think that this is a better idea because they're all like, wait, we can't get rid of them. And then Sully's like, but what if we drop him off? And they're like, that's better. That you're right, that's better.

SPEAKER_02 32:02

Everybody go with the wind traders. Why is that better?

SPEAKER_04 32:05

I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 32:06

The winds are different, and the wind traders is like, sure, just come along.

SPEAKER_04 32:11

He made a big point about he's like, Well, I guess we could take one, but that's it. And then eight people show up, and he's like, We said one. He's like, Well, we won't do anything bad. He's like, Okay, go come on in. What? What are you talking about?

SPEAKER_02 32:26

So the uh uh the colonel and the the the bad forces, they instantly spot them on there, but before they can do anything, the wind traders get attacked by the fire and ash people.

SPEAKER_04 32:39

Now, this is the first time we've met these people. Don't we think that they would have attacked something previously? If this is I don't I'm confused. What do you mean? Well, so we're on a floating ship, and then we just get attacked by these people who we've never met before. Why have we never met them before if they just are attacking things, you know?

SPEAKER_01 33:00

Well, they're like banditos, you know. It's like until you go close to the border, you don't have to face the banditos.

SPEAKER_04 33:06

Okay, so you it's a location, it's a geolocation thing. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:11

I don't know. I don't know. It's just weird. And you're just like, I don't know. Yeah. There's no reason for their attack except we want to introduce new a new bad character. And so what are they going after?

SPEAKER_04 33:27

Cargo or something?

SPEAKER_02 33:28

No, because they don't really want to kill everything because they're angry. Because because the the Okay, I don't know what the witch, the witch queen of the fire people, she just hates everybody. So she just wants to kill, I guess. They want to kill. She just loves burning things.

SPEAKER_04 33:44

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:46

So there's a big fight, Nahiri and her sort of fight, and Nahiri just gets her ass kicked. Um, this movie has what you call situational power. What that means is sometimes somebody's the best, and then in the next scene, you decide that the other person is the best, or one team is the best, or your team. It just goes back and forth and back and forth.

SPEAKER_04 34:13

I think part of the problem, Dan, is that everyone complains now and makes fun of when we do training montages, but that solves those issues every time, you know? Just put in a two-minute training montage, and we're like, yep, she's gonna come back and kick some ass. I don't know why people don't like them.

SPEAKER_02 34:31

Yeah. Well, they do sort of. She has like a healing montage in this where she pulls a bow.

SPEAKER_04 34:38

She can now finally use a bow again. That's not the same thing. She's not gonna her normal. She's not even back to 100%. She's got to get to 110, you know, to win. And she already got bested. So, like, how how I'm saying she's now she's at 80%, and she's gonna go back and just kick some ass. It doesn't make any sense. Doesn't make any sense.

SPEAKER_02 35:00

Um, yeah. Uh boom, boom, boom. The family crashes, but they live, but spider's mask is having problems. And we've the bad guys, what they do is they cut the braids of the other people. It's like scalloping.

SPEAKER_04 35:18

It is. I didn't like this. This was actually this was the most emotional thing in the movie for me. Like that that was tough to watch. I didn't like it.

SPEAKER_02 35:28

Um, there is a level of racism in this movie. A level?

SPEAKER_00 35:34

I I would argue it's a very high level, just for the record.

SPEAKER_02 35:38

And at a certain point you sit here and you're like, okay, so James Cameron is mapping Native Americans onto the these people. But sort of. Sort of. And yeah, and in a sense, by bringing in Jake, he's he's polluted them, right?

SPEAKER_04 35:58

100%, correct.

SPEAKER_02 35:59

In like in like not a good way. He's he has totally brought you know, the foulness of the of the pig skins in there, and it it just sort of gets offensive at a certain point. I don't know. It's just it gets weird.

SPEAKER_04 36:16

Yeah, it is it's all weird.

SPEAKER_02 36:18

You know, if this was if this was about the the first movie is mostly about the idea that we're there to except when they start like bulldozing things and killing the big trees. Right. You're like, can't we just make this about discovery and trying to understand this world as opposed to as opposed to uh everything just being shit on? Or or at least, you know, we do live in a world where there there is a balance of power, right? Where things swing one direction, then they swing the other direction.

SPEAKER_04 36:49

And the just waiting for that swing, baby.

SPEAKER_02 36:52

And the pink skins, the humans, there's there's no mitigating factor to them. Correct.

SPEAKER_00 36:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:59

And it it gets it it so there's no there's no delicate balance in this movie. It's just like war is the only thing that there can be, and murder is the only thing that can be a solution, as opposed to I don't know, I'm trying to think of a movie where there is governmental interaction where where there are I mean, actually, the Dune movies are exactly that, and that's what I watched those smart movies. But the idea in the Dune movies is that they're exploiting the place, but the Fremen live out in the desert, and we set up very, very specifically why you can't destroy the Fremen. You can't just march out there and blow them up because you can't blow up the world, because the world is is valuable, and it it sets up a real tension between what's going on where the Fremen can still do their thing, but the bad guys can still do their thing, and you know the conflicts are these smaller conflicts that actually mean something. This this thing it's like well, uh we're gonna have uh uh 10,000 forces come, which is our entire forces, and they're gonna fight against everyone, and then everything's just gonna bash against each other, and then there's just gonna be a bunch of dead bodies, and nothing will be resolved. And there there's not there's nothing that can actually happen, right?

SPEAKER_06 38:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:17

There can just be more people thrown into the combat, and you're like, I'm tired of the escalation of combat. In the first movie, they've they fought one-on-one, and that was your big combat. This thing, yeah, he's like, We didn't well, if we had 10,000 people, then it would actually mean something. No, it means nothing. It becomes it means nothing.

SPEAKER_04 38:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:40

That's me being angry.

SPEAKER_04 38:42

The good news is that you can pretty easily just become a Navi, you know? So I just do that. I don't understand why nobody's doing that. Oh, you know what I mean? We can put them, we can put people in fake Navi bodies, right? We can now just put someone uh in the ground and they become a Navi. We got all sorts of ways to fix this conflict now.

unknown 39:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:08

So everybody's now on the ground, they're all running in a different direction. The family's one place, Netiria's one place, Jake is one place, the family finds the river, they jump in the river, and they're hiding in the river. The colonel comes and instantaneously finds Jake, instantaneously takes Jake prisoner.

SPEAKER_04 39:27

Yes. Without a fight. Quite easily. Without a fight. Yeah, it's super easy.

SPEAKER_02 39:31

Super easy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:34

I don't want to worry about it.

SPEAKER_02 39:36

Um and then but he says, oh, spider's gonna die unless we go and save him. And the the colonel's like, well, I guess we gotta go save Spider. Because he's my baby, my baby boy. My baby boy.

SPEAKER_00 39:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:53

I really hope that I I was hoping the lieutenant would shoot Jake in the leg or something, so they couldn't do that.

SPEAKER_04 39:59

No, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 40:00

Definitely not. So Kitty Shoot the hostage. So Kitty goes and feeds him a jellyfish, and then the ground oh, I I think they got no, they haven't gotten captured. And then he has Pandora give him CPR and fill him with mycelium.

SPEAKER_04 40:19

Right.

SPEAKER_02 40:19

And then she fucks his spirit and then spider's dead, but then he's not dead, and he can breathe.

SPEAKER_04 40:28

He's not dead at all. He's super alive, it turns out.

SPEAKER_06 40:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:32

Or is it like those uh virus that make deer alive even though they're dead? You know what I'm saying? It is like that. It's fungus. Okay. He got fungicized. So he's dead. So he probably shouldn't think like spider anymore. He should be different, he should be changed.

SPEAKER_02 40:50

That would be cool.

SPEAKER_04 40:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:56

And it would force the spider character to no longer be the spider character, which would make everyone watching it happy.

SPEAKER_04 41:03

Really great for the audience. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:05

And if that guy can act, he gets to play a different character.

SPEAKER_04 41:08

He can't. I'm sorry, he can't. I I I don't believe it. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 41:12

It's pretty funny. Well, you know, I'm gonna say it again. Actually, the the one emotional scene was when the whales talk. There was one part of the whale talk that I got emotional. Sure. Sure, sure, sure. And I I think it was in the last movie, it was the same thing as the whales without human voices are the best actors in the movie.

SPEAKER_04 41:30

Correct. Yeah. Because he can control every aspect of that. That helps. I don't think I don't think that's what it is. I think it well, I mean, they're not great actors. So there's the whales, the whales are not great. No, the actors, no, no, no, no, the actors, actors. They got Jake Sully. Yeah, so Worthington's not great, right? I think we all decided that a long time ago. So then they were like, what if we cover him in CGI? Will that help? Turns out it didn't. Um you know, it could have. It was worth the shot, but it didn't help. He still has to talk.

SPEAKER_02 42:08

Okay. So um uh Jake attacks and they take the colonel. Oh, because the the the bad guys, I guess, have somebody. I don't know who they have. They probably have the kids.

SPEAKER_04 42:20

Yeah, well, they had spider and they were gonna kill spider.

SPEAKER_02 42:24

So they serve so they were already captured when they were fixing spider. Okay, so they were captured, but they do it in secret. They fix they fix spider, but then they attack, and the colonel takes the queen instantaneously. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 42:38

But then she takes him over, and then he teaches her about the weird ponytail um thing.

SPEAKER_02 42:46

Yeah. I don't know. I don't know where the all the family is at this point. I guess they're still chests.

SPEAKER_04 42:52

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, they're all there. So then he shows her how to work guns.

SPEAKER_02 42:57

Yeah, he teaches her guns. Uh Nateri's able to fly away to the insurgent base, where the insurgent base plays almost no part in this whole movie.

SPEAKER_04 43:05

That's correct. I you you don't even know they're still there until we're there.

SPEAKER_02 43:09

Um, Tony, then they talk about the fire dance. How exciting the fire dance was.

SPEAKER_04 43:15

When she kind of does that, you know the move where you like kind of run backwards in place? I love that move. That's kind of what she was doing a little bit, and I was like, that's cool. Good for her. She's very excited. She's having fun. You know, you don't get to see her have a lot of fun during the movie. So it's good to see her happy, having a good time. Yeah, good for them.

SPEAKER_02 43:35

Uh, Kitty takes over a poison plant and it kills everyone, and then they easily disappear into the swamp.

SPEAKER_04 43:42

Yeah, so why is there only three people watching the kids now? So there's because there's a ton of people there, right? And they're all shooting the guns or whatever, they're having a good time. But like, no one's watching the kids? Just these three guys that get plant plant thorns. Also Dan, I don't understand. Is she controlling the Earth? Yeah. Sorry, not Earth. That was that was wrong. The planet. Because the planet is pushing her out, I thought. I'm so confused. Yeah, but then she hooks up to things. Now okay. But but then later she again is like being pushed away. So how is she control? I don't understand her powers. I just don't. I don't get it.

SPEAKER_02 44:37

Well, because if she could have done that earlier, they would have just won, right?

SPEAKER_04 44:42

Yeah, but she did it in the middle and then couldn't do it again later. You know, she can't do it, she does it, she can't do it, she does it at the end and wins.

SPEAKER_02 44:51

I don't that's confusing. Now, did you ever watch the airbending cartoon?

SPEAKER_04 44:56

Uh no, I'll just say no. I've seen like a little a little bit, but no.

SPEAKER_02 45:01

In that one, Aang trains and he has to get a master, and you go through all these things. Is there a training montage, Dan? There's training episodes and multiple training montages and everything.

SPEAKER_04 45:12

That's what I'm talking about, man. Now I get it.

SPEAKER_02 45:15

And you've got you've got, well, the the one girl water bends so she can move water, but then she learns to blood bend and so she can take control of the blood in your body. Holy shit. Very powerful. Very creepy, very creepy and weird. But they make it very intense and creepy and weird. And then Toth, who's like the greatest character, she's blind, but she's the earth bender, and so she she's connected to the earth through her feet, so she never wears shoes. And her feet get dirty, freaking dirty. And then gross. Then she learns to metal bend. And then when she when she becomes the metal bender, she's just like, I'm the most powerful of all, and rains hell on everyone.

SPEAKER_04 45:55

Um is that true though? Because wouldn't the one that can control your blood be a little bit more powerful? The blood is just making everybody blow up pop, pop, pop, pop like balloons.

SPEAKER_00 46:05

Blood's kind of that's crazy. That's insane. That's wild stuff.

SPEAKER_02 46:10

But you know, it's like through the progress of the whole series, everybody just keeps getting better at the stuff. And and like you say, we have the training montages. So it's like at a certain at this point, they lose. Later on, yeah, they can win because they've been putting in the work.

SPEAKER_04 46:27

Yeah. Just like Luke Skywalker. He went and talked to Yoda, and Yoda's like He did training montage. He did it. He went to the planet, he lifted the guy on his head or whatever, and then great.

SPEAKER_02 46:40

I haven't seen Star Wars in a while. The old lifted the guy on his head thing. Okay. So I think that I think they get away, and then I think Jake and the Colonel want to fight, but then they talk about stuff, and then I think they just go their separate ways or something.

SPEAKER_04 46:55

Yeah, they're just like, nah, we're good for now. See you later, bud.

SPEAKER_02 46:59

So um I wrote this is what I wrote. So spy what spider has the muscelium in him. What the macillium is, is all the mushrooms out there, they connect down into the earth, and then they send out these little strings, and then they all talk to each other.

SPEAKER_04 47:17

Okay, so he's part of the So basically it's the same thing.

SPEAKER_02 47:20

Yeah, they just they sent the strings up into him, and so now he's part of the planet, and I wrote, he's he's growing a cooter. Um funny line. That's a good line, Dan. Uh Kitty tries to visit the great mother, and then she gets blown out by wind.

SPEAKER_04 47:44

Right. But isn't she is she underwater? I'm a little confused on if she's above ground or in water.

SPEAKER_02 47:53

Because, well, when you go inside of it, the water's not there anymore.

SPEAKER_04 47:58

Okay. Are you sure? I don't think you know.

unknown 48:01

I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 48:02

Uh, then we do the whole quitty uh kitty being a clone and a freak and right, and I guess we knew that. Is that right? Yeah. Well, yeah, that was the whole thing. Is you you got all banned out of shape because you you wanted to because you figured that somebody crept into Sigourney Weaver's avatar while she was sleeping and fucked her. Oh, that's right. You had like a whole big thing about that.

SPEAKER_04 48:30

Well, that's the only thing that makes sense. I you know what, now that you remind me, I retain that. And this scene could have been very different. Yeah. So they're saying I didn't have a father? Well, I mean, you had a father. We just don't know which guy it was. You know, people are crawling in there all the time. Who knows what happened?

SPEAKER_02 48:49

Okay. So they're gonna now we start talking about we're gonna have another whale hunt. We're like, oh great, just what we need, another whale hunt.

SPEAKER_04 48:56

Well, you gotta have one per movie at least.

SPEAKER_02 48:59

Um, so our all our heroes are back at the beach. Natiri and the pregnant queen hiss at each other because nobody's hissed at each other in a while.

SPEAKER_04 49:07

Um spent a minute. It's been a minute.

SPEAKER_02 49:10

Uh they banish Pygon, the the youthful whale, and the kid gets all pissed up, and it's like, Jake, you're a dick. And you know, then now we get into the blaming, you know, who's to blame for the kid, you know, the stupid brother that got killed. You're to blame. No, you're to blame, you're to blame, everybody's to blame, and Jake's to blame, and but you know who's not to blame?

SPEAKER_04 49:33

Natiri. She's not to blame. She doesn't take any blame.

SPEAKER_02 49:37

She's the only good character for the most part. She's the only character I ever really seem to care about. I'm like, oh. Well, she's also the only one that seems consistent, so that helps. And she kind of talks about wanting to kill Spider.

SPEAKER_00 49:52

Yeah, which you love. You're on board, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:56

And and then, and then she's Jake's like, I'm still an alien to you, and you still hate me, and you hate your half-breed kids. And then she's like, Yeah. She's kind of pretty much she's kind of, yeah. You're just like, wait a second. It's great. No, it's like it's the perfect moment. You're like, wait a second. No, the mother has to be like, these are my kids, you know. She but she's like, no thanks.

SPEAKER_04 50:26

Um I mean, I don't love them. You know what I mean? They're fine. They're fine for the most part, but also they're pretty messed up. Oh god, I forgot this. I don't love them.

SPEAKER_02 50:35

The one kid, the the younger, the the the adolescent boy goes out there, what is he trying to do? No, not Tuck. Oh, not Tuck. We'll we'll never speak of Tuck. Tuck is only like it's it's so funny because Tuck is always like a secondary bargaining chip. They take some person, but they also take Tuck too.

SPEAKER_04 50:56

And then you're like, oh, I forgot about that kid.

SPEAKER_02 50:59

And it's just so wasteful because nothing ever happens. Tuck's just like, eh, I'm here for the ride, whatever.

SPEAKER_04 51:06

Just I needed a babysitter, so I just went with whoever was closest. So the other kid, I think his name is Locke or Luke, I don't know what the fuck his name is. Lowak. Lowak. Something like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:15

What does he do at this point, Tony?

SPEAKER_04 51:18

I have no idea. I don't even know where we are. Does he run away again? He takes a gun out, runs away, and wants to kill himself. Yeah. Oh yeah! This is weird. This is a weird moment for me. Um why is he suicidal?

SPEAKER_02 51:34

I don't know. For stakes.

SPEAKER_04 51:35

Also, like, why is that in this movie?

SPEAKER_02 51:37

For stakes. For stakes to set up that they're gonna murder, they're gonna euthanize spider. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 51:44

Also, like would he use a gun? That feels inappropriate. You would not you know he shouldn't touch metal weapons. He knows that. They're not allowed. They're banned unless you want them, and then that's fine. And then you're okay. But it's just it's all weird. I totally forgot that this happened. Thank you for bringing this up.

SPEAKER_02 52:02

Well, because it's it's bizarre. It's so incongruous. You're just like, wait, he wanders off from the tribe to murder himself?

SPEAKER_04 52:08

That's how Yeah, to just end it all. I'm sick of you, Dad. Killing myself. It's terrible stuff. Um awful. Awful scene. Shouldn't be in the movie.

SPEAKER_02 52:19

Um, yeah, like why why are you wasting your movie's way too long.

SPEAKER_04 52:23

And this is wasting my time. You're wasting the kids' time. I I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 52:28

Uh Kitty and the hot girlfriend show up and they dig up the bow. I guess the bow. Oh, they pick up, they pick it up.

SPEAKER_06 52:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 52:35

Because that's what I'm saying. They put it in the earth and then it was fixed. I think that's what happened.

SPEAKER_02 52:40

No, they had it, they threw it there and then then they they buried it, and then they unburied it to fix it. Because it was broken when they buried it. It fixed itself in the dirt, and then they unburied it. There's the there's the fixing it montage while spider rides a dolphin. Oh, was there? Or spider rides a dolphin.

SPEAKER_04 52:58

Yeah, I didn't like that either.

SPEAKER_02 52:59

Uh the colonel terrorizes a village because uh because you'd you it you gotta have a scene in between the you gotta give the colonel something to do, and if he's not being a giant p you know, just uh so stupid. And then he he goes to the ash camp and he's all like, Hey there, lady, I'll get you what you want. And then he s his his dude's way out there and he snipers a dude to show his power, and then she loves it.

SPEAKER_00 53:29

She loves it. Yeah, she loves that.

SPEAKER_02 53:32

And then she goes, they go into a tent, she doses him, and then I think uh she's like, Why are you here? And he's like, I want an equal, and you're my lady.

SPEAKER_04 53:47

You're my lady, and she's like, Yes, I am.

SPEAKER_02 53:50

Then we have sure am. We have a montage, and we have a flamethrower, and we have sexy tent time.

SPEAKER_04 53:56

Yeah, they're doing it.

SPEAKER_02 53:57

Somebody's getting some. The colonel's the only one that can get some.

SPEAKER_04 54:01

Colonel, yep, you're right.

SPEAKER_02 54:03

So it's gonna be calf communion where all the whales come together, and so the bad guys see this is coming, and so they're like, Well, we could do a year's worth of work in a in a day and make a hundred billion dollars.

SPEAKER_04 54:19

It's a lot of dollars. A lot of dollars, Stan.

SPEAKER_02 54:23

Um, they fix the bow, they give the bow to mom, and then the young the young kid's like, I'm gonna go find Piacon. And then and while this is happening, the Ash people grab spider.

SPEAKER_04 54:38

From where?

SPEAKER_02 54:39

Um, from wherever he was. Right.

SPEAKER_04 54:45

Oh, I see. Yeah, that's making some sense.

SPEAKER_02 54:49

Because everybody's either hiding or they're everybody knows exactly where they can be. Exactly. Right.

SPEAKER_04 54:53

It's so weird because it they're searching for the town, right? That's why he's torturing other towns. Yes. But then somehow they're just I don't, it doesn't make any sense. It's so weird. Also, like we already fought with the water people, so we know where they are, right? Well, there's different tribes. There's different, you know. But this is the same tribe that he was with in the second movie where they already had a war. You'd think they'd look back there.

SPEAKER_02 55:23

Just look where he was before. I don't understand. That's true. That is where he has a tent, and they they went there to take him out of his tent before. So you're not sure. Right. So I what's going on here? If you're starting to re-terrorize the area, you know start where he was.

SPEAKER_04 55:38

You know, like your last known whereabouts, start there, and then and then if he's not there, search on the trail. But guess what? He's there. That's a one-stop shop. That should have been an easy find.

SPEAKER_02 55:50

I mean, and the other thing is the thing that drives you crazy about these movies is the one thing. The thing I always go back to is they have satellite imaging, right?

SPEAKER_04 56:05

Well, the humans do for sure. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:07

I mean 100%. Whatever you want to say about Donald Trump and all of his stupid people. When they wanted to kill like all the senior guys in Iran, they watched them through traffic cameras. We could find them. And they waited, they knew where they went to breakfast, and then they just fucking blew them all. I mean, it's not funny, but in relation to this terrible movie.

SPEAKER_04 56:33

Right, right. Funny in this con now that situation isn't funny, but these people are funny. The blue people.

SPEAKER_02 56:40

You know, so it's like they just have satellites on there, and they would it's not like Jake Sully rides. He walks around out on the all the time. He's wearing Jake Sully gear. He's not, you know, he's not probably just yelling his own name, you know. I'm Jake Sully. And speaking of and and Osama bin Laden, you know why they never found Osama bin Laden or why it took was so hard? He was in a house with roofs, and he never went out.

SPEAKER_04 57:08

He then because you know how they're gonna find you.

Intermission Mouse Cookie Heist

SPEAKER_02 57:14

And they there there were no cell phones, there were no telephones in there, everything got brought in there. And I mean, so that's what you have to do. You have to actually and and you'd buy it more because then this would become a movie, right? It wouldn't be them, we're playing in the ocean, could the ocean quit? No, you guys are insurgents, and that's supposed to mean something? Okay, Tony. You know what time it is? Are you quitting? No, it's intermission. Oh, intermission. And what are we gonna do in intermission? What are we gonna do in intermission?

SPEAKER_04 57:49

Do I get to tell my story? Tell your mouth's story. Great. All right, we this was not a seamless transition. I don't know how we were gonna fit in mice into this. Because it's during the intermission. During the intermission. That might take five. Come back in about four minutes when the story's over. You see, so I woke up the other day at like 5:15 in the morning, and I came out here. This is we have two full two stories in our uh our little condo. So I come out here and I was doing some work, and I heard some rustling downstairs. And it sounded like somebody was like moving my plastic curtain things, whatever those are called. And so I was like, oh shit, I think someone's in this house. You hear blinds? My blinds, thank you. Plastic curtain things. You mean blinds? That that's worth the admission to this story alone. Yeah, plastic curtains, everybody. So I'm so I start freaking out. So I go grab my baseball bat and I start slinking downstairs, and I'm looking around. I was like, no one's in the no one's in my living room. And then I noticed that the sound was actually coming from the kitchen, and what it is is plastic, like squeaking plastic, like I was like, what is going on? And then it dawns on me. I was like, oh my god, my Samoas are on the counter. I think something is getting into my cookies. So I go into a blind rage because the I wait all year for these Girl Scout cookies, Tan, and I haven't had them yet. It's a closed package on my counter waiting for me. When was when did this happen? When did this happen? This was this last week, this this week. So they've been sitting, I mean, Girl Stouse. No, no, so I just got them. So we shipped, we had my buddy who has a daughter, he had leftover cookies, and I was like, ship me them, I'll pay you right now. So he sent me three boxes of cookies, they're all in the trash now because of mice. So I so I go, I I'm seeing red. So I run into the kitchen, I turn on the lights, and I start smacking my baseball bat around the counter, and I can't find nothing. Like, but I look and the my cookies are like this. The entire like side of the package shredded out, and these cookies are gone. And I am a livid. So I went out and I bought 12 mouse traps and I've put them all around my kitchen. I haven't caught anything yet, but uh I'm I'm hoping it's gonna die soon. You're gonna have to. Like, I this is revenge. You're gonna have to order some more Samoas. That's my dad was like, just keep some of the cookies and use that as the bait. And I was like, that's not a bad idea, but nobody tells me that that's gonna work. So I'm going with peanut butter on half and Nutella on half, because some people say that the sweetness of the Nutella helps as well. But now they've the traps have been out for three days and they're all empty. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:40

Think the mice are the mice eating the peanut butter and the Nutella?

SPEAKER_04 1:00:45

You're right. I should probably check the traps, huh? All right. I haven't done that yet.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:49

What do you mean you haven't checked the traps? How do you know the mouse part? You know, I'd do this. And I'm like, nope. No dead mice. The mice are smart, they could be eating all that peanut butter.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:00

I swear to God, if they got in there and ate the peanut butter without dying, I'm gonna freak out, Dan. My dad, so I text my dad first thing in like in the morning. I was like, what do I do? What's the best plan of action? And he's like, Well, you can get some non-kill traps and do it like the nice one. I was like, hold the phone, pops. They ate my Girl Scout cookies. I want blood. So I went and got all kill traps. Come at me, internet. I don't even care. They're all death traps downstairs.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:32

Well, they probably moved upstairs. They probably moved upstairs.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:35

I hope not. That's where I am right now.

Human Base Scenes And Squid Chase

SPEAKER_02 1:01:38

Okay, so fired people have got spider. The Skype people are gonna move on the sea people. Jake's gonna survive. Oh, they no, they Skype people move on. So the Skype people know where Jake is now. They go there and they're like, give us Jake Sully, give us Jake Sully. Yeah. And the and the wife, and then Jake comes out and he's like, You can't take my wife, because then we'll fight, and they just take Jake Sully.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:04

That's good enough. Yeah, which is fine. Like, why do you need the wife anyhow, bud?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:09

Doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:09

So the gen uh here we go. We got the we got Okay, this was crazy. So now we go to the the base. The base is also like an oil refinery.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:22

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's fine.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:23

So here come a bunch of banshee riders into the you know, into the airspace of the base, and they're all like, oh, they all start freaking out, and then it turns out that they're allies, he the colonel comes, they're allies, not hostiles. And you're like, Huh? They would have already known this. Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:43

Right? This this isn't a surprise to them. No. He went out and made some friends, and then he brought them back to him. And he would have told everybody, and you would think so.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:54

Because if the commander of the base didn't want them on there, they wouldn't be on there. So she cannot be surprised that they are coming.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:00

That is correct, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:02

Then we then we have a nice montage of testing spider and putting him on a treadmill. You probably like that when they put him on a treadmill.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:09

Didn't you like that part? Like the Tom Cruise in uh Top Gun Maverick, they put Tom Cruise on one of those things, you know?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:20

So Look has gone to search for Pygon. He's out there, he's by himself, but then we see his friends right across from him. Right. But he doesn't know they're there, and then he gets attacked and chased by the squids, and then the junior whales all have to save him. Um is that how you work a rest, you know, like uh something bad happening? You show that his friends are there to save him.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:48

Well, yeah, you don't want people to be like, where did they come from? So you gotta show them that they're there the whole time. Keeps it simple. Less questions, you know what I mean? Um You don't want because you don't want here's the thing, right, Dan? So let's say we don't know they're there and he's in trouble. You might be nervous. You might be like, uh oh, there's some peril in this movie. We don't want you to feel that way. We don't want you to ever think that anything could be wrong. We don't want anything bad to happen. It's okay, his friends are there, guys. Don't worry about it. I want to talk a little bit about sound design now.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:23

Oh, wow, okay. Talk to me. What do you got? He is fighting these squids, and he pulls out a knife underwater.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:36

What what noise do you think a knife makes underwater when it clangs?

SPEAKER_04 1:04:40

Same as it does, same same as it does when you rub two knives together.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:44

Cling, cling, cling, cling, cling, cling! That is the noise the knife makes underwater.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:49

That's right. Are you saying that's wrong, Dan? No way. No way. So terrible.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:58

Uh Colonel hangs out with Spider. I'm still me. You're an amazing kid, Spider. Let me tell you about your mom. She's a hero. I'm here for you, spider.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:07

What? Do we know who the mom was? I don't remember all that.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:11

I think he showed a picture. I I don't even know where Spider King. I don't even know how Spider is here. I don't I don't remember any. I mean, did he just get I don't I I don't know. I don't remember somebody tell us Spider in the first movie? Avatar Avatar?

SPEAKER_04 1:05:28

I don't remember him being the first. I only remember being the second, but maybe he was just like a little bit in the first and we didn't notice it. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:36

I don't know. It's just very confusing that that Spider could have How did they adopt at what point did they adopt Spider?

SPEAKER_04 1:05:46

Great question. Spider is not in the first Avatar. He is introduced in the sequel Avatar, The Way of Water, as a human child born on Pandora who was too small to return to Earth.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:01

Why do they have it?

SPEAKER_04 1:06:04

I did AI didn't say that far. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:08

Why why why are they spinning like why is why is spider their problem?

SPEAKER_04 1:06:13

Because they clearly made friends with him, right? They were best buddies or something.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:19

Oh, Loak and Pygon are sitting in a tree talking about life and his clan's all dead except this one big one.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:27

Um you want to talk about where where where where they lock up how they lock up Jake?

SPEAKER_04 1:06:35

Just like in a c in a cage, in a glass box, right? I have a conquest. Out on the tarmac. Right. So when they when they bring him in, there's like paparazzi.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:50

Who are these paparazzi people that are like taking pictures of it? Oh, we got him! We got him!

SPEAKER_04 1:06:56

That's yeah. Um is there a news network here? I don't understand what's in there. A bunch of them. It's like a hundred people, and they're all like everybody's very excited about the capital's take. Right. I don't understand what's happening. And then he's just he just sits in a in a glass box. You know, I almost uh booked this part back in the day for I don't remember who it was. It was a health, one of the health clinics in the Mall of America, if you've ever heard of that, which is in Minnesota. Beautiful. They set up a glass box where a person was going to live for one month and like exercise and eat right, and you could watch him lose weight. And I was this close to booking that. Um, a buddy of mine actually got it, Scott, which he's great. Um, but yeah, I almost got to live in a box for a month. So if you'd have killed Scott, you'd have got the job. Yeah, but he's really nice. He also was married to one of the agents at our agency. And so, like bullshit favoritism, maybe, but he's also very funny, so it's fine. Did he lose a lot of weight? He did actually. He looked great. Put some of it back on, I'm not gonna lie, which is which happens. That's okay. Uh, but yeah, like he he got pretty fit and then he got married, and then he got chubby again.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:17

Kids will do that to you.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:19

Kids, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:20

Okay. Jake is in the in the box. The colonel goes to visit him. Uh what are they gonna do with Jake, Tony?

SPEAKER_04 1:08:29

I kill him? Right?

unknown 1:08:33

How?

SPEAKER_04 1:08:33

Execution? How? No, wasn't paying that much attention, I don't think.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:40

Firing squad the next morning.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:43

No, you're right. I do remember that. Because he said somebody wants your heart, and then he's like, but I'm gonna go old school, firing squad, right? Isn't that what happened? I think so. I just was like, just the whole idea of like just kill, you know, the just kill him, just get it over with. Yeah. There's no reason to capture him, put him on display, and then kill him tomorrow.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:12

You don't need anything from him, you don't need any information from him, you're not intimidating anybody by keeping, you know, like what I don't know. Here's what you do.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:22

Pop, pop, pop, saw, saw, saw, and then you hold the head up to the media. You're like, look, I got him. And then everybody still claps and takes their pictures, and then you're done. Game over.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:34

Okay. Uh Naturi goes and gets uh weapons. Spider escapes, of course. Uh Natiri steals one of the transponders, and then uh Jermaine from Flight of the Concords. This is a marine biologist who's like, I didn't know why we're doing this stuff.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:54

We should play being careful with these things. I believe you're from New Zealand. Is that where is that where they're from? I can't remember. He's from New Zealand. But he's also doing a weird accent in the movie for well, yeah. I think he's trying to do American, right? I don't know. I don't know what's going on. He only has one funny line in this whole movie, and we already missed it, I think. He's on the screen while they're like doing a plan. And he's he's talking, and at some point he just goes, Did they hang up on me? or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:24

I was like, that's funny. My favorite thing was after spider escapes on these big video billboards, they're like looking for this man, spider.

unknown 1:10:36

Sure.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:38

What are you talking about? I don't know. There's like a whole civilization that we don't get to see, I guess. I'm kind of bummed.

Natiri’s Raid And Spider Leverage

SPEAKER_02 1:10:44

Um, so now Natiri has the transponder. She flies in there and just starts blowing shit the fuck up.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:52

Hell yeah. It was just chaos. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:55

And they don't mobilize anything against her. The the protection of this thing, which is ostensibly the thing you're gonna protect ten times more than anything, is like one guy in a flying ship, sort of.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:08

Well, to be fair, she surprised them, you know, so everyone's out to lunch or dinner, you know, having a good time.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:14

Think about every war movie where where the the bad guys come in and start dropping bombs on the, you know, the the the runway, everybody's running to their plane. There's like there's all these great things that you do in in these situations, right? Where you scramble people and you do stuff that's not just like endless chases through all the dumb things. Okay, whatever. So the marine biologist gets a gets a tractor and he runs it into the thing and then backs it up, which I love. He's in reverse. Oh, is he in reverse? He's just in reverse. That's funny. Yeah, I love it. And then Jake runs under it so they can't shoot him, and then eventually he gets out, and we don't even see what happens to the marine biologists.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:01

Well, he goes a different way, so he's fine, you know. So he's definitely alive, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:07

Um, and then Spider, Spider shows up right when they've got Jake pinned down and they're like, take the shot, take the shot, and spider's like, You can't shoot, because if you shoot me, uh you need me, because they need spider because he's science. Because spider has the mycelium in him, and if they could figure out the mycelium, then all the humans could come and live on the planet.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:31

But aren't they already? Because there were a bunch of media people, Dan, back when he captured Sully. Hundreds of people. What are they doing? I don't are we sure they're not already living here. Well, they can live there and enjoy themselves. Oh, okay. Instead of always being like, ah, I can't breathe very good. Yeah. Got it. Got it.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:53

Uh, what are you gonna do? Shoot me? And then Terry shoots the gunship, and and what happens after that, Tony? Do they easily escape?

SPEAKER_04 1:13:04

I guess yes, right.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:06

Of course, because they always easily escape anywhere.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:08

Well, I was trying to think, because this we escape, and then there's one more of these, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:13:13

Is there one more giant? Oh, god, well, um, yeah. Right?

The Knife Scene And Final Battle

SPEAKER_02 1:13:18

Um, let's see. Pretty sure. Let's see. Okay, so they they easily escape. This movie is just kind of like rinse and repeat, so it's hard to point at which they land on a beach, Natiri, Spider, and Jake, and then Jake takes Spider into the thing to kill him, and then Spider's like, Do you want to do something about Spider talking about having to piss for 20 minutes?

SPEAKER_04 1:13:41

Yeah, well, he has to pee, but he's in a suit of some sort, and they didn't put a zipper in it, so he's really upset about that. Um, so then he's gotta un he's gotta take off the whole thing, so he's doing that, and then he's just in his loincloth again, but apparently that was he still wasn't ready because he still is like, Man, I still gotta pee. And then Sully's like, Hey, you want to come talk? And he's like, Yeah, I'll do that. And then they're walking, he's like, Man, I really gotta pee. Can we pull over? He's like, Nope, we can't pull over. Um, and then he's on his knees and he doesn't mention it again. But if someone was about to kill me, I would probably pee my pants at that moment, and that's a great time for a joke. But they didn't do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:22

So he's like, You missed a good joke right there.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:24

You missed, you missed your pee joke, guys. You really you set it up for 10 minutes and you just forgot to do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:33

And he's just he's just doing the, you know, he's got a knife to his throat, and he's like, you know, it's not cool, bro. It's so weird.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:39

And then but he does, he does the question, he's like, Do you love me? And he's like, with all my heart, slice and dice.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:46

Ah, but they he chooses he we he he chings it into something, but he didn't didn't cut him, and I'm not sure what he chinged into. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:56

So this is the point at which Jake has to go and get the big bird because they need the big bird. And he flies down with the big bird, and everybody bows, and then all the clans unite, so because behind the big bird, and now the whales have formed a big circle, and then I guess when the whales form a circle, there's the big energy thing. I didn't understand the big energy thing.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:20

I don't wonder where the sky beam came from. I was hoping you were gonna be able to tell me, but I did write down it's been a while since we've seen a Sky Beam, so I appreciate James Cameron bringing that back. We've had a Sky Beam before, not in Avatar, just in movies in general. I feel like we've kind of gotten away from using the third act Sky Beam. What are you talking about? And so I'm glad we're bringing it back. What is the third act Sky Beam? Like Avengers had a Sky Beam that was blowing stuff up. Superman at one point had a Sky Beam that's blowing stuff up. You know, they use these Sky Beams as like a big threat sort of thing, and we kind of got away from it. I haven't seen it in a few years, so I'm glad we brought one back and didn't explain it at all. It's good. Okay, there it is.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:05

Um now we have the Council of Whales, and then his stupid kid gets up and he's all like, you know what we should do, we should fight. And then they're like, you know, I guess we're gonna fight. All right.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:19

Sure, sure. We could do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:20

So here come all the boats. The boats are like boating, and then when they're getting kind of close, they look at the whales and they're all like, hey, wait a second. That's just the lady whale. I you know what I really hoped was gonna happen?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:36

What's that?

SPEAKER_02 1:16:40

I was really hoping that they'd say that all the whales were paper mache.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:49

They're all fake whales. Fool you. They like go to go to like catch one, it just crumbles in the net, like, whoa, what the hell? What's going on here? It's made out of paper. That's what I wanted. I wanted them to be paper.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:08

That's what it made us think.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:10

Yeah, that's what I want too. Now I wish that that's what would have happened. It's not, though, damn. They didn't do that.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:16

So um, all the male whales attack.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:20

So this is my second favorite line in the movie. We'll get to my favorite line very soon. We are running out of real estate, Tony. I know, I know. It's it's it's all happening in this final battle. Okay. But this guy, he's sh those whales are like coming at him, and he's like, whoa, what's going on? And then the lady comes over the comments, she's like, I thought they weren't aggressive. He's like, Well, they're usually not. And we've only been hunting them for the whole movie, so who would have thought that at some point they would fight back? I'm so confused. It's just some of the dumbest dialogue I've ever heard in my entire life.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:53

I'm gonna tell you what I thought was gonna happen in this movie.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:56

Please, and you're gonna aside from paper mache.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:59

You're gonna say, Dan, you're an idiot. I really thought that the male whales were just gonna destroy everything. And then this that was gonna be this whole scene. The scene was gonna be they just destroy all the human beings, and then we have a personal fight somehow between whoever somewhere else that is that isn't this big war. But no, that is not a thing you could do because now here come the Ash Riders, and then they destroy everyone, and then we've gotten to the point where because a hundred of them flew out of the sky, they've swung it 100% back to the humans.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:39

That is correct. Yeah, they won.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:41

And so Kitty's gonna have to go and get the great mother to to do that.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:48

And this is my favorite part of the movie. Continue.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:52

And in classic James Cameron, now, whenever it goes from night to day, James Cameron has this one shot that looks like an actual sun, like looks real. And then we cut back to CGI land and we're like, this doesn't seem like the same orbit. It doesn't match.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:09

The colors don't match, nothing matches. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:12

But he loves this one shot, and and once again we're drifting into night, and we're just like, why does why does because the other one in the other movie was day drifted into night exactly when we got to the second half of the battle?

SPEAKER_04 1:19:27

Because they take a long time. I don't know if you've ever been in a battle before, but they take a long time, you know? Hours even. Okay, what we gonna did you have your favorite line? Well, no, not so she's she's talking to mama, and she, you know, she has help from all her friends, um, because she can't do it alone, so all of the kids also join in there.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:48

Kids go in there, spiders help big, it's great.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:51

Yeah, it's it's lovely. And then the guys are all about to the humans are about to shoot all the whales who have now, instead of attacking, have just circled up, which I didn't totally understand like you were just kicking some major ass whales. Why would you then just stop and bunch up? Don't understand it. But they're all together, and the guy's like, take off your uh safety, safety's off, get ready to fire. And then she talks to the mom, and the octopuses come and start circling the kids. And a guy underwater in a little ship is like, hold your fire, hold your fire. We've got a situation underwater. There's more fish than we thought. Hold your fire. I lost my mind. First of all, why would you hold your fire? Just shoot, just shoot. You got the fish in a barrel, just shoot. But he's like, wait, more fish are showing up. Let's stop. Let's wait until they get more numbers. Dumbest thing I've ever seen in my life.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:52

The squid show up, the squid are great. The squid, like they do. The squid are great, yeah. They're totally hilarious, they're totally wonderful. Big squid attack. Um here's my favorite line. This is what Spider says. That's right, but holes.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:08

Yeah, after we've cursed a thousand times in this movie for some reason, which I don't remember in the other ones. They curse a lot in this. There's like people say bitch, shit. Yeah, like, but he says butthole.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:20

Yep. Um one of the whales eats the horrible Aussie guy, which we're like, thank you, thank you, Lord. Yeah. Um then we have the classic fight on the deck of a ship. Spiders on the deck, kiddies. They love the kitties captured by the witch, the colonel flies off with spider. They catch I guess to fight the queen. I don't know. Spider shoots Quarridge. Uh I don't know. I guess the witch What's going on? You trailed off I just might I get so frustrated at a certain point. My notes just don't make any sense. So I guess I guess Natiri and the witch fight, and Natiri wins wins. Is that what happens?

SPEAKER_04 1:22:02

No. So the witch wins, Natiri's on the ground, and then Sigourney Weaver uh child comes up and attaches her ponytail. Oh, she ponytails the witch, and she out ponytails her, and then the witch just runs away. Oh, yeah, they just let her leave. Just let her run away. Yep. Because that that there's no way that'll ever come back to haunt you, right? You just killed her entire tribe. It's fine. I won't worry about it.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:29

We end up flying, oh yeah. What's his name? Quaritch tries to leave with Spider. They're flying. Somehow Jake makes the flying fish fly as fast and higher than the wizard.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:42

The flying bird.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:43

A fish is out flying the flying creature.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:48

Yep.

unknown 1:22:49

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:50

Then they end up on a thing, and then spider shoots him in the leg or arm. Yeah. And then he's then where they're hanging off, and and spiders at the bottom, then the colonel, then Jake, and Jake's pulling him up, and and then Spider climbs up him, and then the colonel's like, Well, I don't think this is right or something. So I'm gonna fall to my this is awkward.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:15

That's what he says. He looks at him and goes, Well, this is awkward. Uh, and then the family shows up and they're about to kill him, and Sully's like, Wait, don't kill him, don't kill him, because he has a choice to make. And then he goes, Ain't that a bitch? And then jumps off backwards. It's really dumb.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:32

And then we don't we don't see what happens to him because he just gets caught by the witch's waver and then she takes him away. Because he's totally free. For the next movie. Yep. And then we have a bunch of voiceovers about the great mother and the this, that, and the other thing.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:46

And I didn't, I don't understand. They all go to like some sort of dead person ceremony to welcome in Spider. Yep. Uh he gets to go meet uh Sicorney Weaver, real human. I'm very confused.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:00

Yeah, so he goes inside the Great Mother and sees everybody that's dead and is all like, I'm not part of this family. I don't, I don't have to be his Quarch. He's not my he's not my dad. It it'd be one. You're not my daddy. I mean, in the other movie in two, did was he conflicted with Corch being his dad and he wanted Quarch to be his dad?

SPEAKER_04 1:24:19

I don't I don't think so. I don't remember. I can't I can't speak on it, Dan. I don't remember.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:25

And that's the movie. Yay! It's like was kids wanting to commit suicide, wanting to murder their children. Yeah, it's these are not real stakes. You have to work so hard to earn stakes like that. And and they're just like, we need to put some stakes in the movie because the giant stupid war isn't enough. It's like that's not gonna make us care about you dumb characters because they're dumb characters.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:54

Unfortunately, that's true. It doesn't. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:56

Pygon is the only good character in the movie, and he's a whale, and we only see his eye.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:03

Yeah, and the other one doesn't have an eye. Oh, the big one that was still The other whale, the only other whale left or something? Yeah. So those guys are fucked, right? Because they're both I think they're both dudes. They can't reproduce and start over. Well, you could get a new tr you can bring in some new hot ladies. I thought that they were the last two fish left. Are they not? What do you mean?

SPEAKER_02 1:25:26

There are tons of whales left. It's just his tribe.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:29

But they're I thought they were different whales than the other whales. Are they all the same whales? Alright, I don't understand. Dan, I didn't understand the movie. What if they're to understand? It's a war movie. It's a bad war movie. I don't understand who the fish are, who the fish family is. I got nothing.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:48

You know.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:49

The royal fishies.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:50

The other thing is they needed to make the ash people, they need to make them like white or something. They made them a different color. Like ash.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:57

Yeah. Like the color of ash. Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:59

Or just whatever, you know, or yeah, make them because they, yeah, make them different.

unknown 1:26:04

Right?

SPEAKER_04 1:26:05

They weren't different. That's true.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:06

They weren't different.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:07

Because yeah, the the two blues are different between the water people and the and the water people also have a different tail.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:14

They have a swim tail.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:15

Yep. Yep. Make make the fire people are just the same.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:18

Make them different.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:19

What if they were like cute and they were like Charmander and their the end of their tail had a little flame on it? That would be cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:26

Make them orange. That'd be cool.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:28

Make them orange for the fires. Yeah. Make them true. Make them charmanders. I love it. You'd have sold a lot more action figures of them. I would have bought them all. I'll tell you that right now. Oh, she was like sexy and red. Uh red, yeah. She see a lot of good stuff you could. They didn't do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:46

Same blue. Whatever. Who cares?

SPEAKER_04 1:26:49

Nobody.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:50

Nobody.

unknown 1:26:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:54

Now we talk about something. You have anything else you want to say about this movie, Tony?

SPEAKER_04 1:26:58

No, I'm done talking about James Cameron.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:00

And maybe we'll never have to talk about another Avatar movie in our entire lives, or maybe we'll have to start talking about him again. He's 2020. He's not gonna make it.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:07

He probably is so stupid.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:09

It's like go go make a real movie. Go make a movie with actors.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:16

There's a funny, so in uh Entourage, he's making James Cameron's Aquaman. Oh, okay. And there's like a funny little scene where he's talking to Eric, the character Eric, and Eric's like, wow, this looks so good because he's there on a blue screen and they're doing all the CGI, and he's like, pretty soon you're not getting actors. And James Cameron turns around and he's like, in five years we won't, Eric. And I was like, Yeah, he's doing these, he's doing it. It's just funny. He doesn't, I don't, I think maybe he hates actors, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:48

Well, considering the people he hires. Um I watched the new 28 years later, The Bone Temple, which is a second and hopefully. They'll make the third. So good. So you watch their avatar, then you watch a real movie, and you're like, sure. Well, look, there's actors and they're doing acting, and and you don't know what's going to happen. And people are people that are terrible are terrible for reasons that you understand.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:20

I like to be confuddled, you know. That's what I like.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:24

Well, luckily that's not a word. Is it not? Are you sure? Confuddled? You can't confuddled befuddled or confounded, but you can't be confudded.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:34

But what I what happens when you're both? You gotta be confuddled. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 1:28:38

Well do it, do Tony. Do what you gotta do. I watched about Yeah, do you I watched about half of the new Wicked movie. Not as good as the first one. The songs are much worse. They're just I I don't, you know, I was never, you know, I never listened to this music, but I enjoyed the songs in the first one. And I thought they were moving and they got you going when you want this one when the move the songs are like they seem very short and they don't seem to go anywhere. And her s did you watch it?

SPEAKER_04 1:29:07

Did you watch No, we haven't. Like we we I bought it and we just never watched it. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:14

Her sister is terrible, and SpongeBob is terrible. It's oh it's not Spongebob. Yeah, SpongeBob is in it.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:21

Have you seen the new SpongeBob movie? No. I'd like to see that. But that's on my list. It's on my list. What do you what do you what do you watch, Tony? So you got me on this James Marsden kick now. Oh, good. Uh so we watched his new movie, Mike and Nick, and Nick and Alice with him and Vince Vaughn. And what's her name? Elza Gonzalez? Is that her name? I don't know. I should have looked that up before I just started talking. Elza Gonzalez. Yep, nailed it. Those are the three. It's super fun. It's weird. It's kooky. It's funny. It's like an action comedy time travel mob boss movie. It's fun. Tony's true. I had a great time. I loved it. It's very weird, but it's good. It's good. Naomi did not enjoy it, but I enjoyed it a good deal. And also James Marson's great. He's great. I just love him so much. I want him to play like be in like a buddy-buddy cop movie, but they don't have to be cops because cops are troublesome now. But like, you know, like a buddy-buddy action movie. I think he'd be really good at it. They do occasionally. There it is. I know. Get him in uh shoot. What was that Jason Momoa movie that we loved? Get him in the sequel to that.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:39

Yeah, put him in there.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:41

Make him a dirty copy. Or a non-dirty cop.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:45

Well, watch it. Sexy turkey. Dirty, like, exactly. Bit of both.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:51

Okay, Tony. We need to come, we need to come back to Planet Earth.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:54

We're going. That's right. So it's we're back to your choice, even though it's been like three weeks since we've been choosing. But the floor is yours, Dan.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:04

I'm going to tell you that the year is 2013. 2013. What a year. I'm going to tell you the name of the movie. I'll tell you the name of the movie and see if you have ever heard of it or can name the star of the movie. It has a fun game. It's a very bad title.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:26

Very bad title.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:28

Very generic title. Dark Crimes.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:36

I was waiting for a third word. That's it. That's all you get in the city. No. I have absolutely no idea. Sean Penn. No. No. Ah, shoot. Oh boy. Gerard Butler. That's no, we do too many Gerard Butler movies.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:01

What does that mean?

SPEAKER_04 1:32:03

I don't know what that means. Jack Black. Closer. Closer? Steve is his Steve Zahn movie again.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:12

No, it's a Jim Carrey movie.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:15

What? Are you sure? I don't think that's right, Dan. I think it is right. Okay, so first of all, it's 2016. 2016. Not 2013. So I totally would have gotten it then. Yeah, no, you're right. Dark crime has got a beard. Okay. This doesn't seem right. Uh-oh. He's got bad scores, Dan.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:40

It has bad scores?

SPEAKER_04 1:32:42

Yeah, it's got a good thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:43

People were expecting something very different from Jim Carrey.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:47

Um, 0% on Rotten Tomatoes critic score, 32% audience score, and that's just gonna be people that love Jim Carrey and don't care what the movie is or haven't seen it. Okay. Well, it should be interesting. All right. Let's beat up here.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:05

Let's beat up on a comedian. Because you know what we always say, comedians are the best actors, and they usually is is he alive?

SPEAKER_04 1:33:13

Is he locked in a cabin somewhere where now he's got a clone out in the world? We don't know. We don't know what's going on with Jim Carrey.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:20

I think it's like, you know, just like he's probably like an investigator and there's something bad happened. Something like that. One of those dumb movies. Oh, interesting. One of those kind of dumb movies.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:31

Well, Tony. Are you sure? He looks so serious. And it says it takes a dark mind to solve a twisted crime.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:40

He's trying to do that because Robin Williams was in that movie Insomnia, right? Is that the one? Yep, I remember that. Yeah. That's everybody wants to, you know, every comedian wants to have be able to do that, you know, where you're in a movie like that. Because he plays the killer, I think, in that movie.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:53

He sure does, yeah. At a photo, Photoshop or whatever, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:33:57

Al Pacino going after him. I think they all want to play that dark role, you know. And you know, Robin was he was very good at at acting all over the place. Well, he's he was very talented. He's a very talented man. Lots of demons, lots of problems, but yeah, I mean, who does it? Incredibly talented man. Okay, if you like what you see, give us a subscription, give us a thumbs up, leave us a comment. Um, yeah, and we sort we you can we get our button. I survived uh Avatar 3. Avatar 3. We should make buttons, actually.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:32

You're right.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:33

That'll be fun.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:36

We'll love it.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:37

But just us.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:38

We'll just be at the doors handing them out, not part of the actual movie for you. You'll love it.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:44

And maybe we'll see you next week at the movie for dark crimes. Goodbye, everybody.