Hate Watching with Dan and Tony
Hate Watching with Dan and Tony
Hate Watching Joker: Folie à Deux
Ever wondered what happens when the Joker tries to sing a courtroom ballad? We tackle this and more as we dissect "Joker: Folie à Deux," grappling with the movie's audacious blend of courtroom drama and musical elements. While our feelings are mixed about the film's narrative execution, we find ourselves pondering Lady Gaga's standout performance as Harley, whose presence demands attention despite limited character development. Our discussion opens up new narrative possibilities, imagining a plot where Harley's influence on Arthur could change the game entirely.
The character dynamics are a hot topic, especially when it comes to Arthur's transformation, or lack thereof, into the Joker. We express our frustration with the film's failure to comment meaningfully on societal issues, leaving us yearning for deeper storytelling. But it's not all critique; we laugh about the quirky portrayal of awkward prison love scenes and consider how a reversed Harley-Joker dynamic could make for a much more intriguing storyline. As we explore these themes, we find ourselves questioning the film's missed opportunities and the potential richness of these iconic characters.
In lighter news, we chat about the upcoming Hallmark reality series and muse on the rapid production of feel-good films like "Happy Howlidays." Creative endeavors aren't limited to the screen, as we share excitement over Alex Melton's musical YouTube series and nostalgic reflections on performances in "Black Doves." As we wrap things up, we leave you with a playful thought about eternal friendship, promising more laughter and camaraderie in the episodes to come. Don't miss out on this blend of humor, critique, and cinematic analysis that'll have you both entertained and thoughtful.
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So I got an email from a guy.
Speaker 2:Uh-oh, this sounds dark and ominous. I like it, this guy, jules, jules Vern, god.
Speaker 1:So this is what he wrote. Okay, thank you, sir. Allow me to extend warmest regards to you. Mr Zeck, whatever your name is, your podcast and show is easily one of the best available. Whatever your name is, your podcast and show is easily one of the best available.
Speaker 2:Your dialogues about the art and business of mainstream cinema and the shenanigans that go into creating the same are both droll and trenchant. Yeah, so he's only talking to you. He referred to me as curmudgeonly. Well, I mean, basically he's got you to a T.
Speaker 1:Hold on. This is the best part, if one could make a suggestion. It seems as though you have of late, mr Goodsell, been somewhat harsher on your goes, mr Say, than normal, although he's an agreeable sort and readily laughs. Along with those various slights and importunities, it may be the case that these are quietly weighing upon him, and it would be a great pity if your partnership or show were to suffer as a result.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Dan Goodsell, you bully. Thank Jules. Thanks, man. Thank you. I love you, Jules. Jules, come on the podcast. Let's team up on Dan. Get a little revenge. That's the sweetest letter that I've never received in my life he sent it to me because he wanted me to be nice to you. I know as a Chris, honestly. Here's the thing, dan. I hired this guy. I was like I found his podcast.
Speaker 1:Hold on, hold on, looking forward to your future episodes. Kindest regards OP. I don't know, his name was Jules in the other one PS.
Speaker 2:No, I am neither, mr Zeck or an associate of his, as it happens, which is exactly what I would say if I was trying to fool you, but I wasn't. Oh, that's what a what a warm Christmas gift that I just received. Yeah, whatever. Well, let's see if Dan puts it into practice. Everybody.
Speaker 1:Why would I?
Speaker 2:Spoiler alert he will not Welcome to Hate.
Speaker 1:Watching with Dan and Tony.
Speaker 2:Oh, when you said have we started the show, you meant like, have we started the show? All right, I'm with it. I don't know, Did we start?
Speaker 1:the show. We started it now Get it Do your intro.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Hate Watching with Dan and Tony. I'm Dan, I'm with it. Did we start the show? We started it now. Do your intro.
Speaker 1:Welcome to Hate Wiping with Dan and Tony. I'm Dan, I'm Tony. On this show. We watch a movie, then we talk about a movie. This week I picked the movie and I picked Joker. Do you have to look it up?
Speaker 2:Folly a do. Isn't it a folly? A do Could be. Listen. My brother took French in high school, so I'm pretty sure I got that right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we just had a lot of pre-business and so we're talking pre-business. I don't know where Curry's going to put the pre-business In the show it's going to be in the show though. The front business, the back business.
Speaker 2:I think it'll be the front business, because I want everyone to start the episode on a hopeful note, a hope for the future, which is actually quite poignant on the movie that we're doing today, if you think about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we talk about the movies, and this one before we started, tony was like you know. I should have watched this movie earlier because I'm not sure what I think about this movie.
Speaker 2:I have this so normally. Normally I have a pretty solid point of view on a movie. When we come to this show.
Speaker 2:And you know I'm still thinking it through as we go and you, you recap it all, but I am so all over the place. I, I hate it. I kind of like it, I respect it, but it's also bad I have. I just I need more time to really like process, because I finished this movie 24 minutes ago. Okay, wow, it's been. It's been a long week at work and I started it last night at like 10 o'clock and it's over two hours. I was like I gotta pause and finish in the morning. Um, it's just, it's a, it's a lot. It's a, there's a lot going on, there's a lot going on there's.
Speaker 1:There's probably two or three good movies in this movie.
Speaker 2:Zero as a full product not a good movie.
Speaker 1:I want to be very clear.
Speaker 2:I do not think this is a good movie, but I think there are some really interesting ideas in this movie and also I have a newfound respect for Todd Phillips.
Speaker 1:Wow, you have respect for Todd Phillips after this, never have before in the past.
Speaker 2:I mean he's done some fun like hangovers and stuff, like he's done some fun Road Trip. I think he did Road Trip. He's done some really fun movies in the past. I hate let's preface this I hate Joker, the first movie. I hate it.
Speaker 1:I never finished it. I watched some of it and then I was like oh god, you know well it's a competently made film.
Speaker 2:Right, the first one I actually would. I actually don't think this movie is nearly as competent as the first movie, but okay, my problems with the first movie are numerous, uh, but my like, my biggest problem is that you take the Joker, a very interesting character, and I understand. You know you're doing your own thing, you got to do your own thing, that's fine. You won't put your spin on it. But you give the Joker the most basic, unoriginal backstory of all time and make him just like everybody else. Like the Joker. Oh, he was abused as a child and now he's abused as an adult. And guess what? Oh, he snaps one day. I don't care. I've heard that it's not interesting to me.
Speaker 2:What's interesting is this Joker, this character who does chaos for chaos' sake, and also he's very smart. He goes against Batman, the greatest detective of all time. He has to be smart. This guy's not smart, so that's like, like my biggest problem. There are other problems as well, obviously, for me in that movie. It's also way too dark and like I don't need to watch that. You know what I mean, sure, so let that out of the way. We don't like the first one. This movie feels a little bit like Todd Phillips saw all of the publicity around the first one, sure, and was like what, that's not the movie I made. And then so he's like fuck you, I'm going to show you what I was meaning by this whole thing, which is the opposite of making this character arc that comes to power. I feel like everyone thought at the end of Joker, you didn't finish it, dan.
Speaker 1:I don't know. I don't know what. I don't know what happened to that movie.
Speaker 2:Basically, he kind of wins the day Right and he's on a cop. I think. I think this is the end of the movie. I saw it one time. He's on the end and he makes like a smile out of blood on the car and like people are rallying around him and he's like Joker, come to power a little bit. And this movie is just a slap in the face of that ending and it's like no, he's not. He's not in power.
Speaker 1:Well, yes, which I appreciate. Yeah, I mean, I was reading a bunch of the reviews of this movie on Rotten Tomatoes and one of them said Critic or audience Audience, just so we know. Who would listen to critics?
Speaker 2:Idiots, I mean. I like to read them and to make fun of them.
Speaker 1:Because I mean critics. I mean there's a few critics I listen to and you're like oh, okay. But the audience ones gets you into the zeitgeist of what's going in the mind of the collective, for better or worse. Yeah, exactly For better and worse, and somebody said this movie was basically a fuck you to all the people that like Joker 1.
Speaker 2:It does feel that way, but slightly in the movie's defense, because it does feel that way. But I don't think people watched Joker correctly. I think that people that saw the Joker that way actually misunderstood the whole point of the film. Oh yeah, and that's why Todd Phillips was like, okay, watch this, watch me shove it down your throat, what my first movie is actually about, and then and then we'll see how you like it then. And they did not.
Speaker 1:They did not it's kind of like season five of the boys, where they're like by the way, homelander is a nazi piece of shit. I mean, I not that I watched all the boys, but I, you know you get that it's great show I understand that it's a parody of all that and you're you know, you understand that you.
Speaker 2:It's a great show, I understand that it's a parody of all that, but you understand that.
Speaker 1:You might have a love-hate relationship with the terrible people in there. It's like in the Watchmen. It's like, yeah, of course I loved Rorschach when I was a kid, but I also understood he was a psychopath murderer. I understood that.
Speaker 2:Yes, he is.
Speaker 1:But we are Americans and we love a vengeance story more than anything.
Speaker 2:Ain't that the truth?
Speaker 1:Americans love the idea. You know. Just, you're talking about CEO killer, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, let's not talk about real world events on here.
Speaker 1:Let's not go too, deep into that. But you know that dude is becoming a folk hero and will be a folk hero and it says something about the American character.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the dark timeline we're in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just like this says things about the American character, but this movie isn't a movie.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately no, and that's you know.
Speaker 1:They didn't make a movie that has an act one, an act two and an act three. This movie has nothing. It's just like, yeah, some stuff sort of happens well.
Speaker 2:So here's the way I was looking at it, right, todd and crew I don't know who else wrote this movie, todd and crew. They had a room with note cards and they're on a wall and they're like these are some really great ideas. Now how do we make them all work together? And Todd goes don't worry about it, we'll figure it out on the day. And then you don't, because you never figure it out on the day.
Speaker 1:They never figured out this movie, no? And so, like you know, at a certain point we get the revelation that Harley is just, you know, she's lying to him and posing for whatever reasons, and then he, you know, sort of confronts her. And then, you know, that's the part of the movie where you're like oh okay, this is where we're going to lead to some catharsis and it's going to lead to whatever happens. Instead, he's just kind of like oh okay, oh, you're my girlfriend, Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, did you lie to me? Yes, oh, you're my girlfriend. Okay, yeah, did you lie to me? Yes, I did. Okay, well, that's cool man.
Speaker 1:You're hot and you're the only girl that's ever paid me any attention. So I guess I'm good with it Can't really blame him for that. I get it, yeah, and so me personally watching this movie. Yeah, and so me personally watching this movie. All the Arthur, fleck, slash, joker stuff just bored me to tears.
Speaker 2:Is there.
Speaker 1:Joker stuff. Let's talk about what we mean by Joker stuff later. But just like all the Joaquin Phoenix stuff just bored me to death. And then when lady gaga as lee slash harley would come on screen, I would light up and I would be like because she's the most interesting character in this movie.
Speaker 2:She's a character in this movie yeah, we don't learn enough about her, but she, she brings something to the movie that nobody else is she brings, she brings some.
Speaker 1:You know she's such, you know he, he plays such a loser, sad sack. Nothing of a nothing piled on nothing as arthur. Yeah, talk about the joker stuff in a second sure yeah that. You just, you just, you don't want to spend any time there. It's just, there's nothing. There's nothing to be gleaned from it.
Speaker 2:And that again, that's part of my problem with the first one as well is he's too pathetic, and I don't mean like it sounds meaner than I mean it, but he's I can't. You just can't get behind him ever Like. He never shows anything where I'm like, okay, okay, I could see why people would follow you into battle. No, which again, which is kind of what the movie's about, but not really. I wish. Here's my thing. This is one of those movies where I watch it and I'm like there's an idea for a movie, let's do that movie. And if we did that movie, I would like it a lot. I think there are two movies that I would really enjoy in here that I can think of you said three.
Speaker 1:I would love to hear your third one oh, I didn't think about it, but you know, you'd get one scene and you'd be like oh, this is the scene that you can build out a whole movie. Yes, because maybe there's three or four or even five scenes in this movie that you're like. Well, here we are. Here's the movie. I've just now seen the movie. Keep doing this and I will love this movie.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we don't Give me. No, we don't yeah.
Speaker 2:So the two movies in here that I would like to see the first movie, which I think is what they were going for I think I can't be sure because it's not close but this there are multiple points in this film that I think speak to this which is a guy who does something horrible and the persona becomes more famous than the guy and it's him battling in between these two personas, which I think is what they're kind of going for. But we don't do it like, we don't do it at all, like. This needs to me. This needs to be about this guy who is finally liked for the first time in his life for being something that he's not and he tries to be that thing and fails essentially internally, not like, oh, I'm the joker, oh, no, you're not, but like he breaks down and has that scene. There's that courtroom scene towards the end where he's like the Joker's not real, but of course he's not. You haven't done anything, joker, for two years, I think two years since the murders, yeah two years.
Speaker 2:Right, what Nothing. But my favorite part of this movie is when he's in the courtroom and I think someone's talking on the stand and they're talking about the movie, the movie of the week that was made off of him or whatever, and they're like that terrible movie. And he has this moment where he looks back at Harley like panicked Was it bad, was it really bad? And she's like it was great. That level of desperation in him to be liked should be forefront of this movie, because he's a loser and he's being liked for the first time, not just by the woman, but also people are adoring him for something that he is, not. That Anyhow. That. And then the other part of this movie that I think they needed to lean into even though I hate the idea is Harley's kind of pulling him into the Joker life, as opposed to the other way around, which is what normally happens. Joker pulls her into that life, but that's at least something you could do.
Speaker 1:Yes, you know that would be interesting.
Speaker 2:And they do just a touch and then they're like, nah, let's not do it, let's just have her leave for no reason at the end of the movie.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I mean they sort of explore through this movie that he's always obsessing over women and then she's the first woman to pay him any attention. Right, and that's what he's always wanted.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And if that's who this character is, and we all understand that character. Yes, we do no-transcript when we see the Joker in the fantasies, which are integrated for the most part terribly and just like so unappealing and so I don't know if they thought he was appealing. But when Arthur acts like the Joker, starting in the cartoon at the beginning, you're just like I'm not interested in this guy at all. He's not cool, he's not suave, he's not competent, he's just like oh, this is not interesting.
Speaker 1:This is just as useless as the Arthur personality and you're like, exactly, I have to feel it just feels like Arthur's sort of playing that role as opposed to. You know, you watch Jerry Lewis and the Nutty Professor Jerry was like and then he takes the thing and he becomes Buddy Love and Buddy Love's like all slimy, but the Buddy Love character is a real character. You're like, okay, I could see maybe how this guy could get the girl.
Speaker 2:Yeah, or when Urkel turns into Stefan Was it Stefan? I think that was the cool persona, I don't remember. Somebody correct me if that's not the right name, but it's a huge switch. Then I do that and then he's this sexy, suave dude. There needs to be a separation, because the entire defense that the lawyer is building is that there are two personalities which we as the audience are like no, there's not. We're seeing both sides. There's the same guy. There's, we're seeing. We're seeing both sides. There's the same guy. There's not even a little bit of a difference.
Speaker 1:And if there's no difference, then this guy literally is nothing he's. The only thing that makes the Joker exists is the belief in him on the outside, and that doesn't play out in a boring courtroom, correct, and it's like every time you put us in that doesn't play out in a boring courtroom, correct, you're doing a boring courtroom drama. And it's like every time you put us in this courtroom drama. I don't want to be there.
Speaker 1:I'm like I'm not interested because nothing is happening. They're just sort of relitigating the first movie You're like well now we're going to tell you what happened in the first.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's not even a good courtroom drama. No, it's terrible. Even a good courtroom drama like there's terrible courtroom drama, yeah. So if you're gonna do a courtroom drama, first of all you should do it well. There should be tension and like stuff should happen.
Speaker 2:But also it would be more interesting if he's first arthur fleck and then becomes the joker and actually and when I say does joker things, I don't think I mean it the same way everybody else does, which is, you know, like oh, I'm crazy, I'm killing people, doing whatever. I just mean, like the joker needs to be charismatic, he needs to outwit people, he needs to like put people on the spot, like he's smarter than you, right. Like the joker needs to be something right. In this movie he's just a symbol which I get, and this is this is why todd phillips whole thing is like no, no, it's just a symbol, it's a comment on society, like that's what I was trying to do in the first movie. And here's the second movie where I'm just going to show you how wrong you were. This is just a comment on society, except for this movie, isn't it really about that? It's just telling me that it's about that. And then I'm sitting in a room for two hours and 18 minutes.
Speaker 1:Well, it's not a comment on society, because the way it's structured is a different movie.
Speaker 2:It's a courtroom drama Right Slash musical.
Speaker 1:We're not seeing him amongst these people. You know, like when he escapes at the end and ends up with the with the guys driving him away there, we're seeing his influence, right. We're like, oh, okay, this is here's these guys. And if he's just, if he's just curl up and back laughing and being weird, cause they, they do that a little bit in the court, in the, in the prison, he's like laughing while the riot occurs and they're seeing where the saints come marching in. You're like, okay, this is who the Joker is. He's this guy. That's just not even instigating anything. Everything's instigating around him and that's fine, but he runs away from that instantaneously.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you're like, if he's not in the midst of that, you're not commenting on it.
Speaker 2:I mean you're right, You're right.
Speaker 1:You're not exploring it not commenting on it. I mean you're right, you're right, we're not exploring it, but let's sit in the courtroom for a while.
Speaker 2:Yeah, let's sit in the courtroom for a while. Why?
Speaker 1:is he Southern?
Speaker 2:Can you explain that to me?
Speaker 1:Was there a reference in?
Speaker 2:this movie who Joker? When he does Joker in the courtroom, he puts on a Southern accent. Why?
Speaker 1:Okay, Tony, I'm going to tell you something.
Speaker 2:Please do Someone tell me something.
Speaker 1:We could spend two hours talking about that scene, because that scene is the absolute worst scene in the whole movie, because nobody knows what the fuck is going on.
Speaker 2:Well, that's true, yeah.
Speaker 1:We start the movie with a cartoon. The cartoon was terrible.
Speaker 2:It's terrible, but I thought it was setting up the duality of the movie with a cartoon. Um, the cartoon was terrible. It's terrible, but I thought it was setting up the duality of the movie because it's his shadow. Like his, he's walking through a crowd. Just the first part of the cartoon. Let me be very clear.
Speaker 1:We get further away and make it worse.
Speaker 2:But the first part of that cartoon, when he's walking out of the limo and his shadow stays behind and he like gets tripped up and looks behind and his shadows in the spotlight doing stuff, I was like, yeah, okay, this is, this is going to be interesting because it's about the persona versus the man. It's not spoiler alert, it's not about that, but I thought that was going to be an interesting point. So for the first 47 seconds of this movie, I'm in my point.
Speaker 1:My point is the cartoon's ugly. It's very, very ugly.
Speaker 2:The animation's ugly, the animation's terrible Sure, yeah, I get that.
Speaker 1:And you're trying to do a Looney Tunes thing and it's like you gotta hire real Looney Tunes people. They hired the Triplets of Belleville guy to do it and it looks terrible. It looks like a Saturday Night Live Robert Smigel cartoon, which are fine for what they are For what they are.
Speaker 1:But they're Robert Smigel cartoons that he does. They should have hired Robert Smigel and had him write it, and then they should have had him find the right animators to make it look the right way, because it doesn't look the way of what it's supposed to be. And that's the thing. You have the money to do anything.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And if you have the money to do anything, you can't start your movie with a seven-minute cartoon that looks like shit.
Speaker 2:Well, apparently you can, you can do it, you can do anything.
Speaker 1:you put your mind to Dan. Yeah, so we set up the shadow and how the shadow is going to take over and he's not going to be able to be himself, because the shadow is what's really running the thing, which is an interesting comment on it, but we don't do that.
Speaker 2:We don't do it. That's not what this movie is about.
Speaker 1:If the Joker felt like this and that's the whole thing is we set up that his defense is that the Joker is his personality. And this movie just barely makes the decision that the Joker isn't a personality. But at times they say, well, maybe it is Just decide.
Speaker 2:Right Well not only just decide, but give me two personalities. Let me watch Joaquin do both personalities and then eventually, because we all know they're not different personalities Everybody watching it knows it, and we're just waiting for the dudes to emerge, right. Let me watch Joaquin, who's a wonderful actor, go from Arthur Fleck to Joker, to Arthur to Joker, and they slowly get closer throughout the movie until they're one guy and then he buckles under the pressure. Great, I'm in.
Speaker 1:And that's what you're saying that one scene where he is finally the Joker, he does, I believe, three different things in that scene. He does a. Southern guy, then there's another one, then there's another one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and he just sort of ping pongs around, bing, bing, bong, bing, boom and never, never, settles on one. And you're like I don't, I don't understand what that. I don't understand what that is. Yeah, I don't, I don't know what. There's, there's, there's nobody that's made a choice in that scene. Yeah, you got to make a choice. What is your choice? I did lots of that. The movie starts. He's in prison, he's the Joker. They show his back. His back looks terrible. The guards all want to joke.
Speaker 2:The big guard. Is this real, by the way?
Speaker 1:How he?
Speaker 2:looks, did he yeah.
Speaker 1:That one felt so weird that I don't know if I trusted it completely, Because the rest of it he looked okay, looked okay, ish okay, but still not great his two shoulder blades looked like they were different, and it was it was a freakish shot, so I I wasn't completely buying it, because you know, you see what's his name in the machinist when he lost 100 pounds and weighed seven pounds, and it's like you're like, oh, can't watch that movie, it's horrible.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean listen. Actors, I applaud your commitment to your craft, but let's take care of ourselves too. You know they're just movies, let's not kill ourselves. Just I'm just throwing that out there.
Speaker 1:So Brendan Gleeson plays the big mean guard, jackie, and I guess at one point they take him in the back and they rape him.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's insinuated, oh okay. But it's not explicitly said.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay.
Speaker 2:There's an awkward moment because they're undressing him in the bathroom.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like tearing off his clothes, and then Gleeson says something, and then they cut away and it's like oh, that felt icky. So you probably.
Speaker 1:And at no point do you have to hate the guards, right.
Speaker 2:Well, he says at one point hey, they treat me like shit.
Speaker 1:So shouldn't we hate the?
Speaker 2:guards. Oh, you mean, we should? Yeah, obviously yeah.
Speaker 1:Did you hate the guards?
Speaker 2:I felt very few emotions for anyone in the movie because again it just feels like it's in the middle of everything. It doesn't take hard stances with anybody, which maybe that's the point. You know, everyone's in a gray area. I don't know, but these guys are pretty bad guys. You know bad guys the bad guys are treating them bad. I should feel bad and I don't feel bad.
Speaker 1:I never felt anything. And you know when they drag the Joker away and rape him.
Speaker 2:I'm like well, well, away and rape him. I'm like, well, well, I don't know man, uh, that's not great for as a movie.
Speaker 1:That's not great. That's not what you want. What you want, um they, they shave him. Oh, because he's going to a, he's got a big meeting, so they shave him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was very uncomfortable yeah, that's the most tense scene of the whole film. Yeah, most tense scene of the whole film. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Most tense scene of the whole film and you're like man. If they're going to put me on edge with a razor going across and cutting the guy, I'm like.
Speaker 2:Cutting it. Yeah, I did the cringe. I was like, oh, last time I did that in the movie.
Speaker 1:This was stepping on nail stuff You're like oh okay, they know how to manipulate me and I'm sorry, but it is a necessity of the filmmaker to manipulate us. Yeah, that's literally their job, it's their job.
Speaker 2:We're giving you ourselves as putty and you do what you want with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we may get to the end and say, you know, oh, steven Spielberg, I think you played with our childhoods a little too hard, you, son of a bitch. You know it's a little disingenuous, the way you know, you did all the weird things.
Speaker 2:That's what makes a great manipulator, dan, is you don't realize you're being manipulated until it's way too late. That's the sign of a good manipulator, then you're trapped.
Speaker 1:So they're this weird one where they they're taking him. They they walk out through the rain and then they all have colorful rainbow umbrellas and I was like, well, that's a really beautiful shot. I wonder if we'll do more of that in the rest of the movie.
Speaker 2:Not really. Nope, we don't have to do it again. Interesting, because when they enter the building, what color are their umbrellas?
Speaker 1:I didn't see.
Speaker 2:Black. So in reality, all of the umbrellas are black.
Speaker 1:Yeah, interesting.
Speaker 2:Could be. That could be an interesting thing, other than it was just an interesting idea where it was like what if let me put this on the board, guys? What if all of the umbrellas are beautiful, the shot looks great, and then, but it's all in his head and they're like okay, but what does that mean? I don't know yet. But let's put it on the board.
Speaker 1:And then they kept it right leave it in it's a beautiful shot and I mean isn't, isn't that the whole key to every every bit of storytelling is um, you kill your darlings. It's like I just finished my new story and I sent it off to my brother and then he always gives me my notes. He sent it back and he's all like you know this whole brutality thing where you cut off a guy's hand and then you have somebody punch the guy in the stump at one point With the stump.
Speaker 2:He punches him right in the stump.
Speaker 1:And it is great.
Speaker 2:It was wonderful, but probably not right in the story, but that's one of those things where you're like I'm going to keep that in my hip pocket because someday I'm going to write a movie that that fits perfectly for and people are going to love it.
Speaker 1:It just was too brutal for the stories that I've been writing.
Speaker 2:Just too brutal, well, that I've been writing just too brutal. Well, let me ask you is it a space duck story, tan? Because then I agree yeah, maybe not, maybe not appropriate.
Speaker 1:Okay, got it I mean I have you know whatever and things happen in the stories, but it was, it was. It was quite brutal and you know, it was like, yeah, it tied back to star wars, where they cut off that guy's arm and the thing that guy Luke Skywalker no they cut off.
Speaker 2:Is that what you?
Speaker 1:mean I think they cut off Walrus Man's hand, or something.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, yak Face or somebody's, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:But yeah, but that's the thing is, you have to, as much as you love the thing you're doing, like he's doing an Umbrellas, a sherboard thing in the midst of this movie and it's like, well, I mean, actually that's exactly what it is, it's a, it's a nod to umbrellas, a sherboard, and then you never have another nod to sherboard right, it doesn't tie to anything because on on 90 of the other fantasy things we just cut to a different location and yeah which is like if they didn't.
Speaker 1:If they didn't do that, if they made all the songs occur within the world then I'd be like okay, you're setting up a threat, they don't.
Speaker 2:Some of them do, most of them don't. That's confusing. Yes, as an audience member I don't know if the ones that are happening in real time are happening. Obviously one is not, because the musical number in the prison they cut back and he's still watching the TV, so that one didn't happen. But then when they try to escape they're like oh, you guys put on a good show last night. Is the show the song or just getting on the fence? I was confused. It was to show the song or just getting on the fence.
Speaker 1:I was confused. It was the fence, it was them getting on the fence. That's not really a great show then, because they only got halfway up the fence. That's not even that good. That's a great show too If you have the psychopath that's on trial. Yeah, okay, let's see. So we go there colorful umbrellas, there's a chorus practicing in this other room, and then we see Lady Gaga. She sneaks out of there. He sees her, she goes, puts the gun to her head and goes and we're like, oh okay, because he was supposed to kill himself at the end of the first movie, right?
Speaker 2:not the end before his. His plan when he went on the tv show was to kill himself on the tv show and then I think they made fun of him and then instead he shot the guy. I think that's what happened?
Speaker 1:did he tell jokes that were funny?
Speaker 2:no, all, all of his jokes are not funny. Okay, so he's never funny Decidedly not funny yeah.
Speaker 1:So he's never funny, so he never exhibited a skill in the first movie.
Speaker 2:No, no, for sure not.
Speaker 1:Because that's the thing about. I don't know if you watched the Baby Reindeer. The Baby Reindeer, I did not. When he does the comedy he sucks at first, but then we get to see him sometimes get over it and then actually become funny and you're like, oh, this is what you have to have. If the character has problems, you can have them suffer on stage. But then if we see them be funny, we're like, oh, you've added value.
Speaker 2:Sure yeah.
Speaker 1:And Arthur never has any added value. And sure, yeah, and arthur never has any added value.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, except as a symbol, except as a symbol right, which is again, if that's what it was about was him not being able to measure up to the symbol. If it was more about that, it would. That's something you could do you could try to do.
Speaker 1:Do that. It would be very hard to do. Sure it's very hard.
Speaker 2:That's why they decided not to do it, Dan.
Speaker 1:So this Dr, dr Beatty, is trying to decide if he's competent to go on trial. They're trying to figure out if he has multiple personalities. He only cares about getting a cigarette. They talk about a subway incident and Marie Franklin and the Joker dancing, and then we sort of bring in the mom and the idea that the mom's voice is in his head all the time and we never go back to that. I don't think ever once.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So there's an interesting again an interesting idea where the person interviewing him is kind of my cat's, just crawling around the desk, is kind of leading him in questions. They always do, yes.
Speaker 1:Every person in here.
Speaker 2:Yeah Right, Like that's very interesting. We don't really deal with it, but I just find that's like an interesting idea on the list of ideas that you could play with.
Speaker 1:Nobody is interested in who Arthur really is and what he's going through.
Speaker 2:No one ever gives, except Harley and she does yeah at first, I, and she does yeah at first, I think she does. She does it first and then realizes that he's a loser, and then is like deuces.
Speaker 1:It's kind of true, I gotta go. There's this one young kid in the yard comes over to him and they say he says, oh, everybody says you're going to teach me how to kiss, you know, will you teach me how to kiss? I've never kissed. And then Joker kisses him or Arthur kisses him, and then he goes back over to the guards and they're all like ah, we got you to do that. And he's like can I have a cigarette? And they give him a cigarette.
Speaker 2:I don't get it.
Speaker 1:And then we have what's the most interesting, one of the most interesting scenes with Brendan Gleeson. They're walking down the hallway and Joker slaps him on the back and says thanks, buddy, because he gave him the cigarette. And Gleeson whacks him, thwops him, thwops him, and you're like. There's the dynamic I want to see constantly. I want to see the Joker or Arthur trying to. This is a desperate guy. This guy wants to get laughs, he wants approval, he wants women to like him, but instead we spend all of his time internalizing and being depressed.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So it's interesting because in the first one I do feel like he's more that way. I do feel like and that's what kind of leads to him shooting the guy. I think it's like he is telling jokes and he wants you to find them funny and they don't, and then they make fun of him. But like he, that's kind of he wants to be liked, he wants you to be entertained, like that's. I don't know. I feel like we've lost that in this movie, which I guess is, you know, just him being broken down in prison, I guess.
Speaker 1:I don't know If he's a depressive nothing. He's a depressive nothing and we don't want to go there. We want to see how we live our lives. Is putting on a podcast and telling jokes for two hours. To only each other, to each other and a few other very smart individuals that understand what we have going on.
Speaker 2:Smart, smart, smart people out there finding the gems in the rough because that's the thing.
Speaker 1:Being a creative person is like the is is very hard in this world that, yeah, yeah is packed with people and and other things that uh are going to absorb your time instantaneously.
Speaker 2:And it's a vulnerable position to be in. So when people don't respond the way you want, that's a hard thing to deal with. So that could be something you play with if you want it in the movie, but you'd have to do that. But you'd have to do it. Sure, again, again. There's lots of choices they could have made, wanted in the movie. But you'd have to do that, but you'd have to, you'd have to do it.
Speaker 1:Sure, again, again, there's lots of choices they could have made so brandon gleason gets him in the singing class and he's like, really, yes, and we talk about this tv movie they made, they, it's really interesting. He goes up to the pill thing and takes his pills and, you know, shows he he's taking his pills and then we, we blow all the way back to his thing and I'm like this is the scene where you're supposed to show us that he stopped taking his pills. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they don't show us that, but later, he says like Harley says you know you got to stop taking these pills.
Speaker 1:And he's like I already did.
Speaker 2:And you're like no, you didn't bud.
Speaker 1:No, I think At this point he's not taking them.
Speaker 2:No, because he would have showed me that If that's something you're doing, you would have told me and you're like why don't you just show us that he did that? Because the classic tell don't show. That's the movie rule.
Speaker 1:No, no, this is a new rule Tell much later because you didn't show forget to show, then tell everyone later. Yeah, yeah, that's the rule because the way they shot that entire scene was to set up that he wasn't taking the bills and that he was it also was this location, you know a point, where you can show that he knows what he knows what he's doing, he's competent.
Speaker 2:He never does. I'm just telling you, he never does in this movie. Do you think maybe they just forgot to shoot that scene, dan? And then later on they're like two thirds of the way through the movie they're like did we ever go back and get that pickup of him spitting the pill? I have my shot list. We did not do it. It's like okay, let's just put in a line. Dan Goodsell says put in a line to explain it. We'll do that Much later, much later in the film.
Speaker 1:It's baffling because they literally shot that whole scene. The scene didn't show us anything, right.
Speaker 2:No, well, they did the first part, when he does the ah and then later it's. I tricked you. That's the part that they forgot.
Speaker 1:But my point is we already set up how the pills work. We already set up the ah and now we've shown us that all again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the same exact thing yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, we're doing the same beat, but to no effect. If you're going to do the same beat, you're going to have to do it six more times until we want to kill you or something, I don't know. So he goes to singing class, sing when you're ready. And then the two of them, he and Harley, sneak out there and she's like is it really you? And my name is Lee, I'm Arthur, I know. And then she tells a whole story about how she burned up her parents' home. Her mom says she's psychotic. And then she laughed about her dad's death. And then she starts singing and he joins in. She sings like an angel, he sings like a monster.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I mean we'll just pull that band-aid off right at the top right. Here's my thing. Interesting choice to make the singing raw right, not like oh, you were doing, but they did it live to film as opposed to recording it after so that's what I read. So supposedly all of the singing is happening on set, with just the mics in the room, like all of that. Love that idea. That's what La La Land did that as well, which was great.
Speaker 1:I love that idea. La La Land terrible.
Speaker 2:Sorry, but I like that decision. I think that's an interesting so like in that movie because it's supposed to be more real, right? I don't know. I like that decision. I think that's an interesting so like in that movie because it's you know, it's supposed to be, you know, more real, right? I don't know. I like the decision. I hate La La Land as a movie. Okay, the ending of that movie, god I'm so. I am still. Maybe we'll do that someday, because that movie, the ending of that movie, infuriates me beyond belief.
Speaker 1:I can see. But, you see, I hated that movie because their dancing was just, it just wasn't there and their singing wasn't there.
Speaker 2:But that's kind of the point, right, like some of that is done on purpose because it's supposed to feel more raw, more natural. Anyhow, let's not talk about La La Land.
Speaker 1:Hold on, we're going to talk about this. Okay let's go. This is an incredibly important point. The idea of singing in a movie is to evoke an emotional response and if.
Speaker 1:I'm sitting there and you're not able to fucking give me an emotional response from your singing. I'm like, why the fuck are you singing? Yeah, get somebody else to sing the part and dub it in. I want to feel something when you're singing. Lady Gaga sings, I feel something. He sings I don't feel anything. This is not a good thing If that's what you're going for. You're trying to drive me nuts with your stupid move.
Speaker 2:Well, all right, let's pretend that you're not mad about that. Right, let's say that you're okay. You're on board with the idea that the whole point is, like Arthur Fleck not a natural born singer, right, so his character doesn't sing that. Well, I mean, he seems fine. I would say competent, right, like it's not great, it's not terrible. I've heard worse. There are some real pitchy moments. There are some real pitchy moments, but again, it's because I captured it at the time. Anyhow, I'm fine with that if that's what you want to go with.
Speaker 2:But if you're going with that, you cannot under any circumstance hire Lady Gaga to be the person opposite of your guy, who sounds like a normal guy trying to sing in the shower. That doesn't work. So you either have to get someone else who can only like, moderately sing like oh yeah, I know the notes, I can hit a tune, but I'm not going to sound like I belong in a choir. Great, Then they can at least make sense in the same world. But, mike, an angel, she's got a voice of an angel over there and it's just. It takes me out of it because I'm like well, why does he suck so much? Because it is a fantasy. These are. This is what I would say.
Speaker 2:I have a lot of thoughts that I haven't quite worked out, because it is a fantasy, so in the fantasy, shouldn't he be good? Wouldn't that be what the fantasy? She's good, she shouldn't he be good? But he sucks and she's great. It's actually very. I'm liking it less and less. I'm getting mad. I don't understand it. Yeah, it's terrible. Oh, dan, it's terrible. This is a tough one.
Speaker 2:I need to take a recess and come back in a week and we can talk about this movie.
Speaker 1:Okay, so he tells Jackie a joke. Finally, because they've been asking him for jokes, is this the mom joke. I don't remember, I don't write down the jokes because they don't mean anything, because they're not jokes, wow.
Speaker 2:I mean, one of them was formed like in the formation of a joke.
Speaker 1:That's not a joke. Sure A joke has to stand the chance of eliciting the response of laughter does it.
Speaker 2:Is that the definition of joke? Though I don't know. That is the.
Speaker 1:That is the definition if I can look at it and I I can go like, yeah, I could see how you could laugh at this. I'm not laughing, it's not a good joke, but it is a joke, sure, okay, okay, right. If you look at it, you say no one, no one, no one without psychosis.
Speaker 2:I don't know what I'm trying to say. Well, I mean he tells a knock-knock joke later.
Speaker 1:Knock-knock. He's on the phone with the lawyer. He laughs in the rain because he's happy, because he's in love. They watch a movie. What movie were they watching, Tony? Some?
Speaker 2:old musical. They watch a movie. What movie were they watching, tony? Some old musical, I don't know.
Speaker 1:They're watching the Bandwagon.
Speaker 2:The Bandwagon Great, I don't know what that is.
Speaker 1:You don't know the plot of the.
Speaker 2:Bandwagon? No, is it about a groupie jumping on the bandwagon?
Speaker 1:No, it's about Fred. Astaire and this Mimi Rogers. No, it's about Fred Astaire and like this, mimi Rogers. I think Sid Cherise plays. She plays like a ballet dancer and they do a thing and the thing turns out to be all terrible because it's so pretentious, and then they reformat the show. So it's just all fun show tunes that everybody enjoys.
Speaker 2:That sounds like a depressing movie. I'm sure that it's not meant to be, but like we, oh, we're trying something artistic and nobody likes it. Let's just do show tunes. You know what I mean? That's what I don't know.
Speaker 1:I mean it's, I think it's. There's a little symbology into this Sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:What's his name? Wants to watch the movie? Harley goes over there, sets the piano on fire. Yeah, which was beautiful. Watch the movie. Harley goes over there sets the piano on fire. Yeah, which was beautiful.
Speaker 2:Just gorgeous. What I mean is that they must have hired a different cinematographer than the first movie, really, because there are points in this movie where I'm like, holy shit, that's beautiful, and this is one of them. The fire in the back, they've got the projector going through, there's some nice rings, and it is one of them. The fire in the back, they've got the projector going through, there's some nice rings and it is a beautiful scene. Very confused by it.
Speaker 1:They get, you know, they're in the projector, and then she starts to sing and then they, you know, because it's a fire, everybody runs out and then she's doing what's the song they're doing? She's doing, if you Could See Me Now. If you could see me now, yeah, this scene was like it was magic.
Speaker 1:Sure, yeah, the integration of the dancing and the singing and what the song meant and the way their relationship did, and they run, they run to the gate and then they climb the gate and then they get dragged off. And then they get dragged off two different paths. You were like production design, the cinematography, the singing, the dancing. I was like, oh my God, yeah, I could see why some people love this movie and then we never have a scene anywhere close to this the entire movie, because this one is wonderfully woven into the story they're trying to tell right, as opposed to a hard cut.
Speaker 2:We wake up in a dream state and sing a song that sort of relates to what we just saw. That's not interesting. That's not interesting at all.
Speaker 1:They throw Arthur down the stairs and drag him to the hole for two weeks and then we have a ballet in moonlight. He's in the makeup, she sings and they do sort of a waltz.
Speaker 2:It's very pretty.
Speaker 1:He can't dance.
Speaker 2:He's a bad dancer. I mean, listen, it's unfortunate that you had already cast the part before you decided to make the sequel a musical. I think there's several numbers where he's supposed to dance. There's like that soft shoe at the end or whatever, and it's just oof, he can't. I love him, he can't, he can't, he can't do oh, you mean the tap?
Speaker 1:the tap part I thought was pretty good, wasn't it?
Speaker 2:it's good when they're not showing his face, which I assume is because it's not him. I'm just making assumptions, because whenever they do the wide shots. I didn't feel like the tapping matched up with his feetsies. But you know what? Hey, prove me wrong. I could be wrong. Maybe I was so mad at this time that I was just like nope, I refuse to believe it.
Speaker 1:Well, let's grab that topic just for one second. Okay, I thought the tap routine looked good. It looked good to me.
Speaker 2:Okay, sure.
Speaker 1:I'm watching it on this tiny laptop.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you got a tiny little monitor. I'm watching it on a 65-inch TV about three feet from it.
Speaker 1:And this one. They said he trained for two months for the tap.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow, really Okay Well then maybe I'm wrong.
Speaker 1:And whatever it was sold as if he was being good at it, right. Sure, yeah, yeah, sure. They shot it that he was in the dance. Everything about it told me symbolically that he was good at it, right yeah great. The other times, like this ballet they had. You're supposed to believe he's good at it, but your eyes do not deceive.
Speaker 1:On a screen any size, he's not good at the dancing and so the only thing in this whole movie that he seemed to have been good at was that tap dance routine, and I'm like, well, if he's good at that, he has to be shit at that, if he's going to be shit at everything else be shit at that.
Speaker 2:If he's going to be shit at everything else, I will. I agree that that number is better than the other numbers.
Speaker 1:I just I don't know. I'm still not convinced that it's him the whole time and I'm you know what.
Speaker 2:I'm probably wrong. If he, if he, trained for two months, I'm sure he did a great job, because he's a dedicated guy. Look at his body. Do you watch? Uh, it's always sunny in philadelphia I have watched that show. I've not watched tons there's a, there's a wonderful scene. Spoiler alerts ahead if you don't, if you are somehow 20 years behind on the show.
Speaker 1:Watch season 12 of sunny exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like I don't. I don't want to suppose. If you don't want to hear it, close your ears for a second. There's a wonderful moment where mac is coming out as gay and it's. It turns into a ballet number and it's fucking beautiful, like is he a great dancer? No, but he clearly worked his ass off, like he looks pretty good and it's a beautiful number and that's what I expect. So that's where I'm coming from. I expect to be like Holy shit, I can't believe you did that. That's where I want to be.
Speaker 1:And when you watch the Barbie movie and you watch.
Speaker 2:I'm Just Ken yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:You can tell he's not a great dancer, but they have put him in positions to succeed 100%.
Speaker 2:And succeed they do.
Speaker 1:And succeed they do. What a lovely number and succeed, they do and succeed, they do. And when they go into the, when they have a ballet in there, I'm like, yeah, they spent so much time on that and they had the right choreographers and they did everything you had to do so that you could translate that to the Oscars and make everybody happy. Yeah, you couldn't translate anything in this movie to the Oscars and make everybody happy.
Speaker 2:Well, other than Lady Gaga singing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just put her at a piano.
Speaker 2:Sure, yeah, like I'm fine with that, let's do it Throw her down there.
Speaker 1:Okay, she's in his cell. The guard let her in. Let her in. They're sending her home because she's that can't happen, right?
Speaker 2:I don't care, I understand stand, it's a movie that can't happen.
Speaker 1:He's in the hole. You don't get guests in the hole, right?
Speaker 2:she has money so she could pay for it, sure she's not even in the prison, which is also confusing to me.
Speaker 1:She's in jason, the adjacent prison. Well, he's not in prison. He's in jail right, because he hasn't gone to prison yet.
Speaker 2:He's right, because I guess they haven't been sent, but for two years. Then I'm confused. I don't understand Full disclosure everybody. Tony doesn't understand the legal system.
Speaker 1:Yeah, two years is a little too long it feels long.
Speaker 2:Right, that's a long time.
Speaker 1:That's a long time, but you know we'll talk about that. She's in his cell and she's going to be at his trial every time. And is she the one?
Speaker 2:that says we're going to build a mountain. Yeah, she says it first.
Speaker 1:She says it first and I was like that's a really interesting line. And I mean, the only reason they say it is because there's a song called we're Going to Build a.
Speaker 2:Mountain. Unfortunately that is correct, because otherwise it might have been interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she puts him in his makeup and then she says stop taking your meds. And he says I already have. And then they make sweet prison. Love. Talk about that, love, tony. You know how exciting and thrilling it was and how it wasn't, it wasn't any of those things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, he does. He just kind of does a weird bouncing thing. Now I I'm trying to think of it anatomically right, she's standing yeah wouldn't. In order for this to work, wouldn't he have to have her legs wrapped around his waist?
Speaker 2:can you do it with two people standing and maybe this is a me problem. I know we don't have to get into my problems, but I don't. It seemed weird. And then he just kind of shakes his body at her for 10 to 12 seconds and then it's over. I'm not sure they had sex, dan. There's a chance that he's just like in her belly button he's just yeah, you know I don't know we don't know, we'll never, know, but we don't need to know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's not, it's not important maybe there's some pickup shots that leak to the internet. We can find out more about what was happening down below. I don't know it was.
Speaker 2:it was not sexy, not interesting. Um, you know which is what I expect from this movie. It would have been weirder if, halfway through this dull, depressing movie, if all of a sudden I was like well, I'm very aroused, so they made the right choice, but I'm still disappointed.
Speaker 1:Now was he, had he ever had sex?
Speaker 2:I don't believe so. No, I don't believe so Well there it is. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So there it is. Oh, now we have a terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible scene. We do the interview with Steve Coogan. Ah, cougs, coogan, great. Let's hire one of the greatest comedians of all time to just play a sleazy journalist. I mean, I'm glad he made the money.
Speaker 2:But is it? Do you think he made money or do you think he was just like so excited?
Speaker 1:no, no, no, everybody made money you know, katherine, katherine keener plays his lawyer and I'm like couldn't cast that.
Speaker 2:Check, katherine, you are she's great, by the way.
Speaker 1:You are incredible in everything you ever do. I love you. She's like the greatest voice of a human being. She's like everything about her is perfect. She's just like and yeah, it's a, actually it's a. Hamlet 2 reunion Coogan.
Speaker 2:Coogan and.
Speaker 1:Catherine Keener was his wife.
Speaker 2:Sure, yeah, there you go.
Speaker 1:We just need your boy. What's his name? Who's that guy you like? That's stupid that one. The guy that bob bozo? Who's that guy? Bob bozo? What, yeah, who's that? Who's? He's like the wrestler guy too. He's like a fake wrestler guy. One of those guys. Um, he's one of those. What's?
Speaker 2:his name. Listen, I'm not gonna help you at all right now. Let me google hamlet 2 here you know him, he's.
Speaker 1:He's in the scream movies.
Speaker 2:He played the you're talking about david arquette david arquette, that guy, he bought bozo no, not the character. I understand that one. That's the only clue that you just gave in that three minutes that even remotely points to dav Arquette. For me, first of all, you should know it instantly.
Speaker 1:Only one person bought Bozo in the last 10 years.
Speaker 2:You're right. I mean, you're right on that, I'll give you that. But I was so thrown by the rest of it that I couldn't latch on to that clip. Fake wrestler that got me good though that's funny, but I was so thrown by the rest of it that I couldn't latch on to that clip.
Speaker 1:Fake wrestler that got me. Good though that's funny.
Speaker 2:The wrestling community would agree. Oh really, they agree on him. Do you know? I thought you were saying it because you knew the drama. I mean, this was 20 years ago, but he basically guested in the WWE at the time.
Speaker 1:One of the two.
Speaker 2:They gave him a belt. Basically, he won a match and got a belt to promote the movie the wrestling movie that we're going to do at some point. I was going to say Ready to Rumble, but that's a video game.
Speaker 1:I don't remember.
Speaker 2:Anyhow. So to promote the movie, they let him come in and win a match and win a belt, and everyone was furious. All these wrestlers that are like dedicated 20 years of their life are like this fucking guy. This actor can't even wrestle. He comes in here, so then Arquette goes on this binge of like I'm going to prove that I can wrestle, and he starts doing like backyard wrestling, indie wrestling, and he's like I want to win the fans back over. And then he came out with a documentary about it. I thought you remembered all this. That's why you brought up anyhow, but I brought up wrestling.
Speaker 1:I remember there was something about wrestling, yeah, like there's just a whole history Behind it.
Speaker 2:It's lovely and he's a sweet man. He did one of our Wrestling Pro Wrestling shows. He came and did a match with us. Yeah, he was. Who's the artist? Bob the Painter, hoskins, is that his name? Bob Ross? Bob Ross, he did a Bob Ross like character where he's like painting and then wrestling. It was adorable. Anyhow, great guy.
Speaker 1:And he wants to play Bozo.
Speaker 2:I apologize for not picking up on that. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:So this interview before he starts the interview, he tries to kiss Catherine Keener. He does that a couple of times and it's very funny to me and it's just because it's just so weird, it's just like no no, it is weird. It's like I want more of that. That's what I want more of.
Speaker 2:That must be why they do it in the prison yard, right. Yeah, whatever, because I guess maybe that's a thing he does, but it never feels. I don't know. It doesn't make any sense to me.
Speaker 1:I just want him to be more inappropriate and more wanting.
Speaker 2:Be more like a character, that would be great.
Speaker 1:Well, just more interaction with the world he's in, as opposed to him being just this guy that's hunched into his own brain. It's like I don't care. How are we supposed to?
Speaker 2:be Well, because we're not in there. Even when they send us in there, I don't really care that much, though, so I guess joke's on them.
Speaker 1:Nothing.
Speaker 2:This interview is about nothing.
Speaker 1:Yes, I don't even know why it's here.
Speaker 2:I don't really know why it's here either. I feel like they think it's saying something because he does. I don't remember what he says, but he doesn't he get kind of mad at Coogan about something I don't know he?
Speaker 1:gets he should be. Do you still want to die? Are you the Joker?
Speaker 2:Oh, ray's like that's not me anymore, that's not me, I don't know.
Speaker 1:And then he starts doing I'm not alone and then he starts doing a song. Yeah, he sort of does a song about love. I didn't know that song, I don't think.
Speaker 2:There were. I'll be honest, there's a couple of songs In here that I don't know, because I'm not 80 years old.
Speaker 1:There were a bunch of songs I did not know and so if I don't know them. I mean, I'm not a, it's not great, I'm old and so I should know the basic, yeah, but they pick ones that just have like a word or a title in there that I'm going to build them out, have like a word or a title in there that they you know I'm going to build a mountain, although I do know that song to some extent but, there were other ones.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then Harley's watching him on TV. Don't know how this is possibly live, but she starts duetting with him and then at the end she picks up a trash can, throws it through the window and takes one of the televisions. Yeah, she's so good, great she's so good.
Speaker 2:Her side of it's a great little scene and I like the musical part of it, but I don't. Here's my biggest problem Is he's so obsessed with this TV movie that they made of him. He loves fame. He seems like he really wants to be famous. This is his chance to be on TV and he doesn't seem to care at all.
Speaker 1:Nope doesn't seem to care at all that doesn't track with me.
Speaker 2:He should really want this to either go well or something. He needs to feel a certain way about it and you can decide Todd Phillips how he feels about it, but to not have him feel anything is dumb you know, have him.
Speaker 1:Have him try and derail it and tell jokes. Have him try to do something. Yeah do something he doesn't seem to care about. His, you know, like, like, when he was doing the the talk with the psychiatrist, he was more interested in getting a cigarette. Yep. And I was like well, that's interesting.
Speaker 2:What does that?
Speaker 1:mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I want to see this guy. You know like, yeah, okay, oh, yeah, yeah, oh yeah. Let me tell you. Well, you know, let me tell you a story. You know we have, like we have a lot of psychotics that were in jail, that have been interviewed. You know, the Charles Mansons of the world that are like this is compelling television. He is the least compelling television throughout.
Speaker 2:And yet somehow people still think he's this. You know big movement, I don't know.
Speaker 1:I wrote drive in all the fans a something-something song. Are they like a bunch of cars in a drive-in? They do some weird song. I don't know.
Speaker 2:Didn't write anything else. I don't know Now to move on.
Speaker 1:Okay, we're going to the courtroom. He does the Nixon peace sign. They get him in there. They're like bring in the jury and they're they get him in there. They're like bring in the jury. And they're like day one and you're like bring in the jury.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know. Tell me something about how juries work, Tony.
Speaker 2:There's usually 12 of them and they're angry and men Yaxi. I don't again. I don't know much about the legal system. Have you ever? Had jury duty. I have had jury duty but I've never been selected, so I've never seen behind the curtain.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean Now, when you were doing jury selection and doing that, was the defendant sitting there.
Speaker 2:No, yes, they were. No, I'm telling you, I sat in the room there. No, yes, they were no, no, no, no, I'm telling you, I didn't even. I sat in the room. I don't think the defendant. Do you mean the lawyer, the?
Speaker 1:lawyer's there.
Speaker 2:You're right, I don't think the perpetrator's there, I think just the lawyers are there and they're kind of asking questions and they're like get out of here, you nutjob.
Speaker 1:You're right, so they would have already picked the jury.
Speaker 2:I'm an idiot. You're not an idiot, Dan. That's the best comfort I can give you. I don't know. So Harley's he's like looking for Harley, where is she, where is she, where is she, and then she's outside and she does a little bit of anything goes from that entertainment um and you know I'm like I could have used 10 minutes of that please because you know she's good at it and she's I don't know she's got a draw, especially when she sings. You know what I mean yeah, she's got a presence.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and just and just, you know they, her hair's like really interesting and they, you know they don't leave. The makeup is subtle.
Speaker 2:You know, they, just they do they, they do it.
Speaker 1:Where they give her a thing, you're just like oh yeah, it can like. You know they, they aren't fighting to make her like beautiful, but they they're just like really giving her like character. You're just really giving her character. They're like oh, character, which is what we want occasionally.
Speaker 2:Is it?
Speaker 1:She arrives, he's happy Doctor on the stand. They say his problems are he's sadness, he's a narcissist, he's friendless and he's a sociopath. Okay, this is it. There we go. That's who he is.
Speaker 2:It's pretty Pretty accurate, you know.
Speaker 1:Day three we are doing his diaries. He wrote about his fantasies about women, whatever. Harley and the lawyer feud and she's like he's not sick, he's perfect. And then she's like we're gonna build a mountain. And then Harley goes and sees him, says she's gonna fuck it. And then she's like we're going to build a mountain. And then Harley goes and sees him, says she's going to fuck it up. And then she lies oh yeah, she's going to fuck it up, oh. And then the lawyer tells him that she lied to you.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Harley is rich. Her dad's a doctor, she's a psychiatry student.
Speaker 2:Okay, now, what I am in this obviously doesn't really matter in the long stretch of things. I'm confused. Is she really an arsonist? She sets fire to the movie room, yeah, but if her parents are fine and they're rich like does she really set fire to something? Also, wouldn't she have been?
Speaker 1:arrested, probably. I think she is. I think in the, you know, I think she started basically in the cartoons is where they really honed the character. And I think she was the Joker's psychiatrist and then she fell in love with him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the origin story, yeah.
Speaker 1:And then she was she a psychopath before that, or did she become a psychopath?
Speaker 2:I think it's one of those things where she grows up in a normal society, even though she has some thoughts, but she's a product of society and she fits in. But when she finds someone who does not do that and she's like, oh, I feel more free. Also, in general, their relationship super abusive, like he is generally very abusive towards her, not in like a physical, but like a mental, like he kind of makes her crazy or feeds into the crazy. That's there, if that makes sense, like she obviously has those inclinations, but she's not.
Speaker 1:So he like he he, he's on it, he manipulates her down a down. A way of existing, yeah, similar to what?
Speaker 2:I thought they were going to do in this movie but flip, yes, where she kind of, and then you know they balked at it and kind of pulled away from it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we really thought that that was what the movie was was her? She's the actual psychopath and she wants him to be part of her sort of her initiation into the world of things.
Speaker 2:And I was like I'm interested. This is interesting, right exactly into the world of things, and I was like I'm interested, this is interesting, right, exactly, and it's the same idea. Like he has those inclinations, but the fact that he also is in love with her and she's the first person to pay attention, like he also has that desire to please her and so that would also elevate his level of wanting to be Joker. You know, so like that sort of relationship, but you but flipped.
Speaker 1:So then we do the Joker and Harley show where they do a duet. You don't know what it's like. You don't know what it's like. And then Arthur gets angry because she's playing to the audience and he's like this is about me, you want to make it's about yourself. Then she pulls out a gun and shoots him yeah, so what well, I mean, it's it. It is a comment on what. What is what the movie that we think of this movie should be? Is that right that that's happening?
Speaker 2:but it doesn't really happen. And then we cut at the end of spoiler. At the end of the movie, when he gets stabbed, we cut back to finish this scene yeah and I don't understand the symbolism of that, she did him in but she didn't. She didn't right, so like I her manipulations didn't do anything they didn't do anything and then, ah, I'm bored.
Speaker 2:This was fun for a little bit, but I'm bored now, so I'm going to go do something else, okay, I've gotten close enough to you to realize you're just a dumb loser, the right dumb loser. You're not interesting yeah.
Speaker 1:Like and that just means there's not a joke. I mean, and maybe this is Todd Phillips saying fuck you to all the Joker 1 people and making this weird movie that totally emasculates the Joker concept so completely that no one ever wants to return to this universe.
Speaker 2:I don't want to return to this universe. I didn't want to return this time. You forced me.
Speaker 1:Yes, take that out. So yeah, so yeah, do it. He's in the yard and they're sitting on the guards' benches and the guards are like get off our benches. And then he's like I'm sitting on your benches, and then the guards don't really do anything to get him off of their benches.
Speaker 2:Well, they say get off our benches. A couple more times Do they even get off our benches?
Speaker 1:a couple more times. Do they even get off their?
Speaker 2:benches? They do eventually, I think. Doesn't he ask for another cigarette and then walks away? I don't know. They do eventually get off, I'm pretty sure, but I don't remember why this should be. Shouldn't this be like a jokery moment? You think so. He's exuding confidence and power because he's feeling loved. He kind of is, he kind of does, but he kind of doesn't. I think you have to do it. You gotta make some decisions.
Speaker 1:Harley visits him in jail, she's like how you doing? And then he questions her and she's like I just wanted you to like me, I'm a nobody. And then she's like but just wanted you to like me, I'm a nobody. And then she's like, oh, but she says I moved into your old building and I'm pregnant but I'm also smoking. And then he's all like why would you want to move into my building? That building is shit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's all weird.
Speaker 1:So he knows what good and bad is. He knows what you know you're like who is he? Is he a psychopath? Is he not a psychopath? Does he want approval? Does he not want approval? I don't know the answer to any of these questions.
Speaker 2:They don't know the answer to any of those questions. That's the problem. It's not a you problem, dan, as opposed to most things in life. Not a you problem, it's a them problem, because they don't know, they don't make a choice, so how are we supposed to know?
Speaker 1:And then I think we do the Carpenters. Now, why do birds suddenly appear every time you are near? Do you know that song?
Speaker 2:I mean, I've heard it Just like me and he smiles.
Speaker 1:They long to be close to you Back at the trial we have Zazie Beetz talking about him. I guess he broke into her house and she didn't call the police. Now she feels bad because she didn't call the police and then now she feels bad because she didn't call the police and maybe she could have stopped the thing and you're like oh, there's Sassy Pete's, I love her. Oh, she does. This is a scene that could have been cut out of this movie and no one would have noticed.
Speaker 2:But I'm glad she got paid. Yeah great job you get that call for Joker 2. You gotta give it your all. No one would have noticed, but I'm glad she got paid. Yeah, yeah, great job, great job. You know you get that call for Joker too, you got to give it your all.
Speaker 1:Then we have a fantasy song, poor Laughing Fool. Oh, this is the Joker, is Me song, and he imagines that he's in the courtroom and he beats the judge to death with the gavel and then shoots himself in the head. Uh-huh, what, yeah, what?
Speaker 2:I thought you were going to explain it.
Speaker 1:This one, yeah, this one's baffling, I mean I kind of I don't know this song, but I feel like I kind of know this, I mean I feel like I've heard of it.
Speaker 2:You are aware of it. Maybe I might be heard of it. You probably are aware of it. Maybe I might be aware of it.
Speaker 1:Okay, I don't know. I can't do this anymore. Is this when he fires his lawyer? Is that what happens?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that sounds right.
Speaker 1:He fires his lawyer and kisses her, and the judge yells at them. And then Harley runs to him and says I'm proud of you, you did it. You can do anything. And then he blows smoke into her mouth.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:They do this weird stuff with smoke and him leaning back and blowing smoke.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like his thing.
Speaker 1:I don't know what that is.
Speaker 2:I don't know what that is either. Maybe we should ask someone who smokes. Maybe it helps you get more relaxed the further back you go, because the smoke goes to your brain. I have no idea.
Speaker 1:He goes back to the jail. Everybody's choker, choker and they riot and he laughs and it's funny and that was a scene they had in the movie.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's weird, right? Everyone's super supportive about him firing the lawyer, because that's the chaotic thing to do, or something, I guess. But even when he does it, it's not that you know what I mean. Like if I was watching that I wouldn't have gotten jazzed about it. He doesn't do anything. That's very jokery even. Oh, you're fired, I'm gonna represent myself. Okay, that's not fun.
Speaker 2:Like if he made more of a spectacle of it maybe gave a little speech about why he's doing it, and you know, yada, yada, yada down with the powerful, fight the system. I don't know anything, anything, but he doesn't do anything. And then he comes back and he's oh, you're a hero again. Why, why?
Speaker 1:I don't know Middle finger to everyone, but he didn't, tony I was going to call you Shannon.
Speaker 2:Why would you do that, Dan?
Speaker 1:She's a great lady. Maybe I love you, tony, maybe you better.
Speaker 2:We're too deep into this to back out now, Dan.
Speaker 1:Now we're going back to the trial. Now he's in full Joker makeup. Here comes Mr Puddles, who's Mr Puddles. Short guy. He's a little person. I guess he was in the first movie and I guess he was friends with his mom or something.
Speaker 2:Well, so he was. I think they worked together or something like that, and he was nice. Fleck was nice to him. He was bullied at work and I think he even stood up for him one time or stopped the bullying by telling bad jokes, something like that.
Speaker 1:So Mr Puddles is there for some reason to talk about something.
Speaker 2:He witnessed one of the murders he witnessed one of the murders he was in the room when someone got stabbed or something.
Speaker 1:So Joker's in his makeup, so he's sort of Joker. This is the point where he starts doing the southern voice and the other voice and the other other voice, so he's doing like three voices. And Mr Puddles basically says that you traumatized me. We were friends and you did this shit in front of me and you traumatized me and you ruined my life.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so we're sitting here, I sitting here, and I'm like this is this is a huge emotional moment, and joaquin is so buried in trying to decide if he's playing the joker, if the joker is a personality or a character or this or that, that we're just like. I'm like you're blunting what is a truly statement scene in your movie that's either going to say Joker's a piece of shit and if you worship the Joker, you're a piece of garbage, or the Joker's like I don't care. This world deserves to burn around me. Everyone deserves to burn because of what I suffered, and so the joker's got to be, he's got to be somebody like that well so, and that you basically said the problem they've set up a character defining moment without defining the character beforehand.
Speaker 2:That's what happened. They got to that moment and they're like, well fuck, who is he? I don't know.
Speaker 1:Let's, let's roll cameras, let's make three different decisions, none of which work. And and you're like is is he acting? Does he know what he's doing? Does anybody? Nobody, no, it feels like nobody. I mean mr puddles does. Mr puddles is like very emotional and yeah, he and the dude is killing it. And then the Joker goes into this thing about making fun of his voice and not knowing the name of the guy he killed. And then he's like, oh, did you see me when I was on TV? And the dude was like Mr Puddles was like I was in the police station for like two days and you know that's all you care about. And yeah, I mean, you know you traumatize me. Do you know how that feels I was? You know you were nice to me. And basically he's saying you're just exactly the same as all the bullies.
Speaker 2:Right yeah, and wouldn't that be a hell of a thing to have to confront? Apparently it's not, but I feel like it would be.
Speaker 1:This is your courtroom. This is where the Joker has to make a statement. He has to say something, and it's not enough to just say you know, it's not enough to make a movie that is against your first movie. You have to actually make a statement about something.
Speaker 2:Exactly 100%, but they're too scared to do it or something.
Speaker 1:Because in the last season of the Boys they spell it out in giant burning letters that Homelander is a piece of garbage In their defense.
Speaker 2:They feel like they've been doing that for four years and people were still like no, no, he's great, he's a, he's a hero. And they're finally like okay, fuck this, I don't know, we don't know what else to do, so we just have to like literally tell you in every way you can imagine, because you guys are not getting it which is fucking wild it's wild, but they're like we.
Speaker 1:We are committed to making the artwork we're committed to, and if you're not going to get it, we're going to make it crystal clear yeah that that in a hundred years nobody is going to be able to say well, these filmmakers kind of kept it uh they were kind of in the middle road no, yeah, you rode that, you rode the twine.
Speaker 2:Yeah, nope no, not anymore, I mean, but I don't really know how great is anthony star, though he so good that's who plays homelander anthony star. Also, he's in those great video game commercials now do you get those on your phone, those shitty like why?
Speaker 1:don't I get video games, why would I get the little mobile?
Speaker 2:games, like on instagram ads, and he's like oh yeah, I'm fighting these guys. I can't do his accent.
Speaker 1:I'm so sorry, that was terrible you know, I gotta say something about social media okay, yeah, please you reap what you sow. My wife, my wife, she complains about stuff sometimes and she's like I get all these influencers and all this and all that. I'm like that's on you, I don't get any of that you craft your own algorithm.
Speaker 2:That's what's great about I mean. I buy stuff all the time off those ads. I love targeted ads and I'm people can come after me because I know people are against. I love targeted ads. You can have come after me because I know people are against. I love targeted ads. You can have all of my information because if you tailor those decisions to me, it's going to work. I'm a sheep Okay, I will buy anything cool, but it doesn't matter. But it's just funny to me that he's in those commercials because they can't have paid him that much money.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:He's great Anyhow.
Speaker 1:And then the state rests and the defense rests, and that's all folks.
Speaker 2:So people cheered when he was like nah, defense rests, I'm not going to do anything.
Speaker 1:Why would they?
Speaker 2:cheer. Yeah, that was my question. Is it because he's just subverting the system and that's like yay?
Speaker 1:Because we can't spend more time in this courtroom.
Speaker 2:We've run out of money. We lose the courtroom in four hours. Sorry guys, we got to go.
Speaker 1:It's frightfully boring. Okay, we do a song. We're going to build a mountain. We're going to build a mountain. We're going to build a mountain. We do a wedding chapel.
Speaker 2:They get going to build a mountain. We're going to build a mountain. We do a wedding chapel. They get married. He does his taps routine. I thought it was good. Tony thought it was shit. Okay, I shit was too strong. I just don't know if I believed it was him, because I felt like the tighter shots were good and the looser shots were not as good. I could be wrong. Yeah, I don't know. Can't prove it we'll never know hook. Look me up and just let me know if that's you bud. I want to know.
Speaker 1:Those are things we're never going to know. Those are yes, they drive him back to the jail. The guards wipe off his makeup, have him in his underpants, either beat him up or rape him, or choke him out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is the scene. That could go either way.
Speaker 1:Either way it's bad, right. So there you go. We have a nice scene of Harley putting on her Harley makeup. I got the world on a string in a bathroom. She is empowered and I was like, oh that was a nice scene.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it would have been a better scene if the movie was about that.
Speaker 1:Clothing statements. He's got a mic. He's got a stool. He's got a mic, he's got a stool, he's got a cigarette. Judges like admonish him. This is not a comedy club, no.
Speaker 2:Oh sorry, finish, no finish.
Speaker 1:I was gonna rant and blame all of you, but I can't do this anymore. It was all a fantasy. There is no Joker, just me. I killed six people, but I wish I didn't. I killed my mom. Bet you didn't know that I want to start over. Harley leaves, uh, wow.
Speaker 2:Okay, let's pause. Oh sorry, did you have more?
Speaker 1:There are letters on this page that I couldn't even tell you. There's a letter K, and then Kook, who's the Arthur Fleck? Who is Arthur Fleck? I mean, maybe that's my point. 's the Arthur Fleck who is Arthur Fleck? I mean, maybe that's my point. Who is Arthur Fleck?
Speaker 2:Yes, so that's his knock-knock joke. So it's knock-knock.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's the knock-knock joke.
Speaker 2:Who's there? Arthur Fleck, arthur Fleck, who that's it? Because he doesn't know who he is. Right, that's like some sort of deep thing that could have made sense if this movie was more about his identity crisis. It's not so. That line doesn't make sense. But let's back this train up here, dan Train's backing up First thing in this courtroom.
Speaker 2:The judge is like and he said this many times throughout the courtroom scenes I won't let this courtroom get out of order. We got to be professional. This isn't a comedy club. In this scene, the Joker has in what we've seen. He has not been disruptive at all, no, not really. He hasn't done that one time. But the judge, every scene, is like well, let's not do it, which signifies to me that it has happened and I would have liked to seen that. I would love to see him fight against the system a little bit, or just don't include those lines, because it's super weird oh, I see what you're saying um, and then we we got.
Speaker 2:We got to get this movie up to 2 hours and 17 minutes I mean so we could add more stuff, add more stuff, add more him being joker in court, because then he says in his speech he's like I was going to get up here and do joker things, but I can't do that anymore, anymore. I haven't seen it once, this movie I would love for him to have gotten to the point where he's like I can't do this anymore, see, but what he's saying is I can't do this anymore.
Speaker 1:he's like. He's like I can't do this anymore, see, but what he's saying is I can't do this anymore. He's checking out of everything, because that's what he's been through this whole movie. He's like I can't do anything. It's not even just do Joker things. It's just like you can't do anything.
Speaker 2:But he's already been there. I want to watch the movie where he doesn't start there and then eventually gets to the point where he's like I can't do this anymore. The Joker's not real, it's just me. I'm a piece of shit. I'm fine if that's your final character moment, but you have to do other stuff before. He's always not done anything.
Speaker 1:So to say.
Speaker 2:I can't do this anymore is a lie.
Speaker 1:He sat in the prison guard's bleachers. He did. He sat there and he did some laughing while people sang.
Speaker 2:That's true. That's actually a pretty good impression there, Dan.
Speaker 1:I'm an actor, let's see.
Speaker 2:We're going long today. We better hurry this up.
Speaker 1:He calls Harley from the jail. He's like come back to me. Jerry comes back, he sings a song. I don't know what the song was. I didn't know the song. It was a bad singing, it was not good. Harley considers suicide. They come back guilty, guilty, guilty. He starts laughing and then the wall blows up. Doesn't look good.
Speaker 2:Sure yeah.
Speaker 1:Arthur in the rubble. He crawls out the hole. He meets some people dressed up as Joker. They put him in a car. They drive away. They're all like we're going to burn down this whole city, and then he gets out, runs away from them, doesn't get captured, wanders into the night, gets to that stairway, which I guess means something, because I know they shot something on the stairway.
Speaker 2:That's from the first movie, dan. You would know that if you watched the whole thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I didn't finish that movie. Harley is there, goes up. Yeah, that's from the first movie, dan. You would know that if you watched the whole thing. Yeah, I didn't finish that movie. Harley is there, goes up there. You cut your hair and he's all like we can go away and have the baby and be boyfriend and girlfriend and she's all like what's wrong with? You dude, dude. What's wrong with you? This is a fantasy. We were doing a thing, we're playing a game. What's?
Speaker 2:your problem right, which is an interesting choice, you know to, to make her only, which is I mean it's right. Right, she was only interested in the joker like, but it's still weird why would you be interested in arthur fleck? I'm not 100, I agree, but that's just where you leave it and then then she's just all right, I'm out, I don't know she sings, that's entertainment. That's true. Guess what it's not.
Speaker 1:He's like I don't want to sing, Just talk to me. And then she's like goodbye, and the police cars come and they grab him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so is she really singing in real life there?
Speaker 1:I don't know they don't set it up in such a fantasy way that it's very interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, anyhow he gets, he's in jail. They're watching cartoons. They say you've got a visitor. He's walking to the visitor, somehow he's alone, and this other dude comes up and he's like let me tell you a joke, and then he says something.
Speaker 2:I mean it's a setup, dan, I'm pretty sure and then he, uh, he shakes him well he tells him a joke about killing a clown and then kills him.
Speaker 1:And kills him. And then we cut to the TV show again where Harley shot him. And then we do the Build a Mountain song some more and the dude is laughing as he dies. And in the background.
Speaker 2:I don't know if you noticed this. I did not notice it the first time. I had to rewind it because I saw people saying it In the background. As Arthur dies against the wall, he is cutting a smile into his face the other guy, yeah, the other guy.
Speaker 1:So he's the real Joker.
Speaker 2:Real. I don't even know if it's a real or not real. It's just passing the mantle, maybe. Maybe the whole thing is Todd being being like. There is no one single Joker, it's. It is, you know, a symbol and anyone can be that symbol. I don't know. Either way, don't care and we?
Speaker 1:we have someone doing the that's life song, but it's not the Sinatra version, it's someone else doing it. Sure, that's Life.
Speaker 2:And the movie ends and you're left going like this Like well, lady Gaga's great.
Speaker 1:I wonder what she's going to do next.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure, sure, yeah, you can think about that.
Speaker 1:Is this a better movie or a worse movie than Bo is Afraid. There's a question.
Speaker 2:Boy, that's a tough one. I had more fun with making fun of Bo is Afraid.
Speaker 1:Bo is Afraid is a much more mockable movie. But there's more in Bo is Afraid as a movie, that's true.
Speaker 2:That's true. Yeah, they make some choices in that movie and do some things and you can make fun of it. That's true. They make some choices in that movie and do some things and you can make fun of it because it's dumb. There's not a ton of choices. But again visually, I thought it was a very attractive movie.
Speaker 1:They let us know that they're putting the show on TV, the trial on TV, the way they cut in the cameras and the way they deal with the media. Look, the cinematographer had just amazing. And if there was a story to tell with all that, if you were just like whoa, this really means something that this is on television. Imagine that Wow.
Speaker 2:What a movie that would have been Woo.
Speaker 1:To the moon Boom. That's a Honeymooners thing.
Speaker 2:You don't know what the Honeymooners is do you how Right in the?
Speaker 1:kisser, do you know who Jackie Gleason is?
Speaker 2:Yeah, come on, I know. One of these days Alice.
Speaker 1:Wow, look at you, tony. You know a black and white television show.
Speaker 2:Well, he's, you know, he's one of the early fat male leads Heroes, heroes in my book, dan. He's one of the pantheon of the great hefty boys and you know there's not a ton of them, so it's easy to find them. It's a pretty short list RIP most of them, so it's easy to find them. It's a pretty short list RIP most of them, unfortunately.
Speaker 1:Tony, tell us about something you like this week.
Speaker 2:Oh, you're going to be mad, dan. There are two things. There's two things I'm going to shout out because it's the holiday season and two of my brand new I hope fingers crossed brand new traditions started this year. Number one finding mr christmas, which I did talk about a few weeks ago, but it wrapped up this week.
Speaker 2:Uh, it's the hallmark reality series where they find the next hallmark star. It was absolutely delightful they made the right choice in the end and the movie, because it's all about finding a guy to star in a hallmark movie that releases december 21st. I'm very excited about it. It's called um happy howlidays. It's about a dog, owner, shelter or something I don't.
Speaker 1:It looks adorable, very excited so they, they spend, uh, they pick this guy and then they spend two weeks making a movie with him in it.
Speaker 2:Exactly so. In the show they're talking about how Hallmark their usual production time is between 15 and 18 days, which is crazy, just nuts. But it also makes a lot of sense. When you watch them You're like, oh yeah, okay, these are people that haven't had a lot of time with their lines Anyhow. So there's that, jesus don't I love them.
Speaker 1:Let me be clear You're great at this because you suck.
Speaker 2:I would love to be in a Christmas Hallmark movie. It would be a dream come true.
Speaker 1:I wrote the title for my Christmas movie.
Speaker 2:What you got. Tell me about it.
Speaker 1:I don't know where I lost the piece.
Speaker 2:We'll keep looking for it. I'll tell you my other thing that I'm shouting out, and that's Alex Melton, who I believe I've talked about before. He's a YouTuber, a musician, and every year last year and this year he has released a video called If the Carolers Were Really Into and then Fill in the Blank. Last year was Pop Punk, this year was Just Fall Out Boy boy and their acapella like crarily versions of these songs and it's delightful. I hope he keeps doing that for years to come. It's my favorite thing you've run out of time dan did you find it?
Speaker 2:no, oh, dan, I think it was like chris, chris, chris, chris, chris.
Speaker 1:This is a terrible title. You can't have that many chris's in the title. Man, chris, chris, chris, chris, chris.
Speaker 2:This is a terrible title. You can't have that many Chris's in the title. Man.
Speaker 1:I think it was like Chris Christmas's Christmas Cottage.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's great, so, chris is the name, christmas is his name, chris, chris Christmas, and he has a Christmas cottage. I love it. Yeah, that's good. Christmas is Christmas cottage. I almost had it it's something like that I have it on a piece of paper.
Speaker 1:I write things on a piece of paper that's your problem.
Speaker 2:You should just put it in your phone. You always have it. So what did you like this week, Dan?
Speaker 1:We watched Black Doves, which is Keira Knightley and that other guy who I love. She's so good, she's great, she's so good. The whole thing is fairly convoluted and people either love it or they hate it.
Speaker 2:But do they hate it? Because they're confused.
Speaker 1:It's a little like John Wick. You know, you watch John Wick and you're like this is not the real world, because you couldn't you know, Sure, these people like leave fingerprints everywhere and you know if the police were involved and there's CCTV in London.
Speaker 2:So none of these things could happen.
Speaker 1:But if you're willing to look past that kind of thing, there's a lot of. The dialogue is really good. I loved it, and the acting is just great. Okay, and I almost finished the new Jamie Foxx thing where he talks about oh, the special. Yeah, he's incredibly manipulative in this show.
Speaker 2:Interesting Okay.
Speaker 1:But the flip side of everything is he is so talented and he so almost died.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're very lucky to have him alive, and so Relatively I, and so you know, relatively I mean, I don't know, I haven't watched it, but like fully functioning right, like he's, he's got there's a couple little issues.
Speaker 1:Okay, you know he has some little ticks and things. There's a few little things going on, but he can dance and do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the recovery is astounding still.
Speaker 1:The recovery is astounding and he is just. I've always thought he might be the most talented person that's ever lived, because he can sing and could do comedy Like you can't believe-.
Speaker 2:He did do White House Down. What more proof do you need? The greatest film of all time?
Speaker 1:He does this one run where he does all these impressions and they're just I'll have to watch it Vocally. They're just vocally, vocally there. You know you've seen him do impressions. He is one of the greatest impressionists. You know he's a. He's a very good singer. He's an incredible comedian. He's a great actor and he's an incredible impressionist. You're like what did this guy? There's nothing this guy can't do. All right, I'll have to watch it, it's exciting. It was fun. What are we doing next week, dwayne?
Speaker 2:Well, we it is the week, it is Christmas Eve week was there a word for, like the week before Christmas Eve week, that's what they call it everyone's like When's Christmas Eve week. It's the week before Christmas everybody. So that's we're doing Christmas Eve week. It's the week before Christmas, everybody. We're doing Christmas Eve week, we're going full Christmas and we're going to watch Amazon Prime's new blockbuster, red One. Red One baby, I'm pumped, I'm excited, I think I'm going to like it.
Speaker 1:I'm very excited. I think I'm going to hate it beyond comprehension.
Speaker 2:I think I'm going to enjoy it. I think it's right up my alley.
Speaker 1:And I want to give a big shout out to Jules of Overlook Pictures, which is another podcast about movies which you can check out. He sent a very nice message which we might have up front. I might have it back, I don't know.
Speaker 2:We very much might have it up front, because people need to know, dan. Also, I'm hoping we do put up because otherwise it'll be super out of context. You really pulled your punches today, dan. I feel like I was pretty loved today. So, jules, you fixed everything. You're a good person.
Speaker 1:I love you. Tonight was my. This show was my Christmas present to Tony.
Speaker 2:Next week I'm going to go Scrooge moment where you're like all sweet, and then you know how everyone knows the Scrooge story really goes After a week of living in the world.
Speaker 1:Again, he's a piece of shit. Tony, you're not a piece of shit. No, you're the piece of shit.
Speaker 2:Well played, Dan Goodsell.
Speaker 1:But we have fun on this podcast and so, yeah, don't worry about Tony and I. We're gonna be friends until I get tired of Tony.
Speaker 2:I think that's what he's worried about. Dan sheesh louise.
Speaker 1:I thought you were gonna say until you die well, that's probably closer imminent no it's not. Oh well, that's probably closer. Eminent.
Speaker 2:It's not. No, it's not. You're going to be kicking long after I'm gone. Dan, Don't say that.
Speaker 1:I want you to be perched up above my grave, pissing down on me, saying there is this for you. Good sir, take a big drink of this.
Speaker 2:Pour one out for my homies. That's what I'll do for you.
Speaker 1:Like and subscribe and, you know, send us an email talking about how I'm the, what keeps this thing going and Tony's I'm dragging Tony along on my coattails.
Speaker 2:It's true, listen, I'll ride it into the sunset If you were going anywhere, which you're not going anywhere, we're just riding around in a circle on those coattails. But it's fun. It's a fun ride Dan.
Speaker 1:You don't have to go far for the ride to be fun, so we'll see you next week. Thanks for playing along, everybody.
Speaker 2:Goodbye everybody. Hey watch it with Dan and Tony. Hey watch it with Dan and Tony. It watch it, dan and Tony.
Speaker 1:It's like watching hell.